Job Discussion Forums

[Yu]

Goes hand in hand with the cheating post but I feel it is a seperate issue.

I am teaching Intercultural Communication. I assigned students a project. They could choose from 6 options. I got everything from very good and insightful analysis (comprable to Western undergrads) to completly copied from the internet.

The copying from the internet does not meet the requirements of the assignment. They were told clearly in class and given in writing that cheating and plagiarism were not tolorated. I explained what this meant as well.

More than 15 out of 120 students copied from internet.

Should they all fail? It is not their work and does not meet the requirements of the assignment.

I.e. I like to assign book reports. Students choose books. They also do a reading log to breifly summarize what was read each time.
I ask students questions like the following:

Would you recommend this book to a friend? Why or why not?
If you were not able to finish the book because it was more than 160 pages long, how do you think it will end?
Did you like the ending of your book? If yes, why; if not, how would you change the ending.
Do you think this story could have also taken place in your country? Why or why not?
Write a description of one of the main characters. Describe that person�s appearance and how that character was important to the story.
Which character has qualities you wish you had, but don�t. What are the qualities that person has, and why do you wish you could be more like that character?
Pick your favorite quote from the book, and explain why it is significant.
What is the main idea written about by the author, and does this main idea have any relevance to your own life?
While reading this book, did you change any of your reading strategies? How?
If you were to do this assignment again, would you choose an easier or a more difficult book to read?


Cheating is clear because a copied book report from the internet wont document the above questions and the reading log makes it harder for students to lie about what they read... no reading log? Dont take report.
And I collect log biweekly to check their progress. My expectation was they read 20 pages a week.

Most students liked this assignment very much, and I got great book reports.

[Yu]

I also feel a bit like a hypocrite because I occassionally show pirated movies in class.

[latefordinner]

Failing about 10% sounds good to me. (Now if it was 50%, I think you'd really have a problem.) The fact that 90% of your students understood the assignment and did it just shows why the 10% or less deserve to fail.
As for the pirate movies and music, that's another issue. Related, but another issue. The only alternative to showing pirate DVDs is not showing any. The alternative to cheating on an assignment is doing the work as assigned. (OK, not doing anything is always an option)

[tofuman]

Great opportunity for you to teach something about Western culture to the literary thieves. Of course they fail.

As for the DVD's, I bought a supply for the office. Several were stolen, presumably by other teachers. Then the school wanted me to teach a class based upon the use of the DVDs. I declined, pointing out that as a government school, they should be setting an example in harmony with the government antipiracy campaign.

They did have some videos that I previously bought for them in the States. Since the DVD player did not work, it was much ado about nothing.

LOL

[NateM]

I would definately fail them. That's something that they need to learn. If the school wants to go over your head and pass them anyways because their family has guangxi, that's their perogative. But sticking to something resembling principles is something I find valuable here.

[frigginhippie]

Received 30 copies of the same words and phrases. Gave zero credit. Explained I have better things to do than read 1 text 30 times. Said not to insult me again. Calmly and condemnatory. Understood.

[burnsie]

Yes, know the issues here.

I outlined a different assessment at the start at a private college that 50% attendance is required otherwise they would fail (even when the do the final exam). I asked every student if they understood. They all agreed that 50% was low and accepted. We all know that 80% is the level in most western countries.

Out of the 7 students I have 3 not making this level and 1 border level. Should I fail them? You bet I will. If the school chooses to overide my decision well that is for them to make.

When I see these kids with no other work except 2 hours of learning a day it just makes you disappointed that they never really learnt from their parents what responsibility is all about.

I do have 1 student who is working full time and still attends class. He works long hours but still comes and interacts and knows the answers to questions. His attendance is still well above the other lazy gits.

[rickinbeijing]

Yu,

There is no problem with plagiarism in the Chinese educational system as the glorious revolution eliminated it decades ago.

There is also no prostitution in China as the glorious revolution stamped it out decades ago.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Sincerely,

Rick, advisor-at-large to Comrade Li Peng

[MoggIntellect]

Rick - LMAO! That is funny.

My colleague and friend taught a film class and sts copied from the Internet, insisted it was theirs and when failed by the teacher they appealed and received passing grades... this is at Lanzhou University!

As for your guilt in the matter (DVDs), the problem with piracy does not contain the same problem as plagiarism. You are not telling the class, look what movie I made... Jaws... they are not only copying work, but claiming it as their own. Let's face it, most research for uni papers comes from other people's work, either their research or opinions... thing is we know what the f*** footnotes/endnotes/bibliography are.

[Roger]

The truest reaason why plagiarism is not acceptable lies in the fact mentioned by Yu and others, and experienced by me in virtually every exam that every class has bright and intelligent learners who CAN DO what we are asking them to do, on their own!
I may have been more strict and often found up to 25 percent to be sub par; yet an impressive 25 to 30 percent would succeed on their own.
There simply are too many also-rans, mediocre, undedicated learners for whom the school leaving cert is the most important piece of paper.
These guys tend to pirate things, and perhaps these guys will eventually shoot up to the top managerial positions in China's economy.
Anyway, I give my students my personal opinion, and that is: you pirate guy are a failure. And you supergirl, are the sunshine in this class. Side by side I would choose supergirl to run my sales department.

A tip: to prevent plagiarism I normally ask them to do their assignments during a lesson rather than as homework. This may lead to me supervising them in their classroom during their homework time in the evening.
It's unfair for the high achievers to be rivalled by the underachievers who score unfairly high marks.

[Yu]

Most of the cheating students chose to do a movie review. The assignment asked them to watch a movie and analyze it in terms of Intercultural Communication. I.e. what can they learn from watching the movie about communication in another culture. How is this different from a movie that would take place in China. I got many reviews copied from the Internet.

I made an ammouncement in my class that about 1/6 of the students copied from the internet. They would have a few days to admit their mistake before I returned the papers and they learned their score. A few admitted what they had done. Which I respect. They could not know for sure that I had caught them. I will allow them to redo the assignment for a passing grade... 6/10. I will also allow students who did not cheat but did not follow directions to complete their assignment for full credit.

I really dont want to fail a lot of students. I don't think they deserve it. I doubt a Chinese teacher would take such harsh measures towards cheating.

[burnsie]

I find that in group classes where 6-7 classes do the same subject that many of the teachers are assessed by how many fail exams. If you have 1-2 in a class that is fine. If you have 4 that is OK but when you get 7-8 fail then the teacher is then assessed as being not a good teacher! This is obviously not always true as the teacher most likely is a harder examiner or the students are just lazier than others.

[hermoine]

First of all, plagiarism is acceptable in China, if not encouraged. If a Chinese student were doing a paper in Chinese for a Chinese teacher, they would be expected to plagiarize. In the Chinese thinking, the student does not have enough knowledge to come up with his/her own ideas just yet, because he/she is too young and he/she is still a student. Students should read the experts opinions and copy what they say, thus they will learn from the experts. This idea has been ingrained in their mind for "5,000 years." Is it right or wrong?

If you want students to do something and you want the school to back you on this, I would suggest stating your policy in writing and giving examples of plagiarism. Then have each student sign his/her name agreeing to the terms.

I would have a meeting with them, let them know that what they did was not in accordance with the assignment, and give them another chance to do it over again. I wouldn't really use the word plagiarism, but just say that they didn't follow the instructions of the assignment. Don't come off as the superior foreigner demanding they follow the foreigner ways. If the students still don't do it right, then fail them. If they protest to their department, put everything in writing. But never use the word plagiarism. It sounds so self-righteous to the Chinese who just do not understand or agree with this concept. You aren't here to change their morals; you're just here to teach English. Then let it go.

[Roger]

[MoggIntellect]

There is nothing wrong with copying ideas... most college sts really DON'T have the hard facts and "knowledge" (I have come to hate that word!), so they copy the world over... but as I said, they must give credit by way of footnotes/endnotes and a bibliography!