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guest of Japan

Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks. I heard it about a month ago, so the person must have been misinformed. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 4672 Location: Western Japan
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Gordon wrote: |
[On the other hand, couldn't the same be said about foreigners in general? I'm sure there are many pastors that think the same about foreigners who are not real "ministers" performing weddings. I know there are not enough ministers to go around this country, being only 1% Chrisitian and that many weddings are done on Sundays, but it still seems funny to me that people "do" weddings here who are not Christians.
Other than intermediate Japanese ability, what kind of training do foreign pastors have in Japan? |
Gordon, the services that most of these foreigners do is religious in name only. Yes its in a church or a chapel, but many are in restaurants and wedding halls, with no crucifix, canned music and no hymns. The chorus singers also are not Christian either, in most cases.
The ordained 'real' pastors often refuse to do the hotel and restaurant weddings because of the commercial nature of it and the bridal agencies pick up the slack because of the demand by a couple for a foreigner to do the ceremony. 70% of the couples at the hotel near where I work request a foreign pastor even though they have a choice of foreign and japanese minister. Its what the couples want, and the white caucasian in the gown goes with the image of the christian church and the white gown. there are Japanese ministers but they seem a bit incongruous with a religion that has only a 1% following in Japan.
The Japanese Christian wedding in Japan has little to do with religion but more to do with fashion and trendiness, with the bride getting dolled up for her big day in a huge wedding dress, groom in a tuxedo and exchanging their vows in front of a gaijin minister.
http://www.seiyaku.com/seiyaku/en/discussion/is-it-legal.html
Last edited by PAULH on Tue May 31, 2005 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Gordon

Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| JimDunlop2 wrote: |
| guest of Japan wrote: |
I have heard that 3 year visas are no longer offered, but I haven't seen any verification of this. |
Untrue. Unless it's happened within the past two weeks. My mate just got one. |
My son just got a 3 year dependent visa a couple weeks ago too. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Posts: 811 Location: Japan
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, stop dogging on my man Rube! I actually know him, a bright, funny, very "earthy," guy. He's actually being humble (for him ) about his qualifications in this essay. He's widely published--in Japanese as well as in English--with generally excellent language skills. He's also, apparently, an amazing teacher--knowledgeable, energetic, and compassionate.
Regarding dispatch teachers--I think both sides have a point. Jim, Paul, Guest, etc. are absolutely right in bemoaning the consequences for the students. Sorry, Sidjameson, while there certainly are exceptions, the majority of dispatch teachers just plain suck. They are almost invariably young, inexperienced, young, completely ignorant about teaching pedagogy, young, so poorly educated that they often don't know basic English spelling and grammatical conventions, young, etc. However, and more importantly, in my experience even the exceptions--i.e., the many serious and professional dispatch instructors--are hurt by this system.
I observed a number of these teachers for 5+ years as one of my responsibilities at a national university. We had just gone over to partial dispatch for the engineering and science majors (the majority of the student body)--a local school (either Westgate or ECC) was to provide the warm bodies for many of the general language classes. While I am sure lots of money was saved, from the point of view of someone who cares about education, it was a complete failure.
I was asked to observe several classes each semester to ensure quality control. Notes taken during some of these observations:
Teacher arrives late on day of observation. (Per students, a daily occurrence). Teacher says, "Hello" to class; only about 20% of the 50 students in attendance answer (most are playing with their keitai denwas). Teacher then begins to write the following on the board: My, Your, His, Her, There (sic), Our. Teacher then has students repeat these words--out loud and out of context as a kind of (I guess) pronunciation practice--for over five minutes.
Teacher arrives on time. Teacher starts class by asking random students about their weekend. Students do not understand question (partly because of the speed it is asked). Teacher gets angry, turns to board, writes, "WEEKEND", turns back to students, shouts, "Look it up in your dictionaries--do you understand 'dictionaries'?" Then, turning away from the bewildered students, he says to me, "How can you stand teaching these idiots?"
Teacher arrives on time. Teacher asks students to take out their homework--an interesting assignment designed to familiarize them with levels of politeness in English greetings. Only 2-3 of the more than 40 students had completed the assignment. Teacher then attempts to organize a group activity based on this assignment--a too complicated, albeit extremely creative, idea, with each table of three students being assigned a level of politeness, then asked to "greet" the surrounding tables appropriately. Group discussion on an assigned topic--"What will you do after this class is finished?"--is to follow naturally from this greeting. 25 minutes into the class, and students still hadn't begun the activity--either because they didn't understand, or didn't care.
This last example was all too common--i.e., a person with great ideas and a lot of potential as an instructor, but whose lack of real status at the university hamstrung her attempts to teach. Students knew she wasn't a "real" teacher in the eyes of both the department and university administration; worse, they acted accordingly, effectively ignoring the homework, lectures and classroom activities. While inexperience also played a part, I feel she was never given a real chance to succeed.
In my experience, dispatch teachers like the latter individual invariably quit after a semester or so to go on to better jobs; the ones that stayed long-term were most likely to be examples of the first two types. Of course, there were--and I'm sure still are--exceptions to this.
Still, Sidjameson--and all the people on this board with similar opinions--are also quite right: in Japan, nobody notices (or cares about) qualitative differences in education. E.g., the idiots mentioned in my first two observations above were neither let go nor reprimanded. Heck, their student evaluations were only marginally inferior to the regular staff--with a lot of "wakais" and "kakkoiis" thrown in for good measure. (Did I mention they were young?)
Ultimately, for most English teaching situations in Japan, this is all that's desired: i.e., a young, relatively attractive man or women to stand up in front of a class and be not just foreign, but "cutely" foreign. A great job, if you can get it, and I certainly don't fault the foreigners working in dispatch companies who are taking advantage of this situation.
However, as Guest, Gordon, Paul, Jim, etc. have also noted, it also makes for a very unstable working environment. When student learning outcomes and faculty research out-puts are both considered irrelevant, when the sole barometer for continued employment is perceived level of "freshness" and/or "cuteness," it becomes difficult to make long-term plans. How can people settle down and raise a family when one day, quite literally, someone can arbitrarily decide they are no longer "fresh" and "cute" enough (happened to people I knew...in those words), and let them go? |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Posts: 811 Location: Japan
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| JimDunlop2 wrote: |
If only we had a way to make this not only obvious and clear to the students, but cause THEM to approach the university administration requesting better quality teachers..... But what are the chances of that happening, right?
My question is not rhetorical, though. IS there anything one could say/do to motivate the students to demand better-quality instruction by showing them the difference between an ECC scab and a prof with a Masters or PhD...? |
These are really interesting questions. As I see it, the problem is this: there is no reason now for students to demand (or even want) better-quality instruction, hence no way to show them the difference between an ECC "scab" and a prof with a Masters or PhD.
Face it, despite what posters like TawtViet argue, there's little incentive for most Japanese to learn English--the overwhelming majority will almost never use the language after graduation. Hence, the continuation of the current system, where people "study" English for sometimes over 10 years, yet never learn to read, write, or speak it. What are they to master the language for, the university entrance exams? Almost none of them "pass" the exams now--indeed, at the two universities (one pretty prominent) that I've worked at, we averaged something like 3-4 people with scores over 80%...out of 300-400 applicants. And yet, most of the others still got in--including all those people with scores in the twenties and teens--because we didn't have enough applicants "passing" the darn tests to be able to turn away the dreck.
This will not be a news flash to any here, but much of English education in Japan is cosmetic in nature--a touch of the "foreign" splashed on like perfume in the name of "kokusaika". Don't get me wrong, like most on this list, I've met many Japanese who "complain" about English education in Japan. Yet few even of these Japanese want to talk about the differences between norm-referenced and criterion-referenced tests, validity and reliability in diagnostic testing, the development of level- and learner-appropriate learning outcomes, the design of effective alternative learning opportunities and their use, etc.... Instead, what you get are off-the-wall suggestions and often bizarre fads. E.g., Glenski's "reading skills" class (a great idea--but where are the real curriculum changes necessary to help him make it possible?) or the Japanese ad I saw on an airplane once which boasted English fluency in three weeks...just by listening to $300 worth of tapes one hour a day....
Bottom line: if most Japanese don't need English proficiency for work or school, then any incentive to demand better instruction disappears. You also get the ECC and Westgate scabs--again, some of whom are skilled and dedicated teachers. However, there's no reason for them to be, nor does the system reward skill and/or dedication. Since student English levels are never accurately evaluated, since English mastery is not important to most, who cares whether they learn anything or not?! Give the students foreign teachers who are young and "genki," and dispose of these teachers if and when students complain they are no longer young and genki enough.
End of rant.... |
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Andare
Joined: 08 Jul 2003 Posts: 43 Location: Czech Republic
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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| By the way what system on ths planet justifiably rewards skill and dedication |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 4672 Location: Western Japan
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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Alleged Westgate Scabs |
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| Andare wrote: |
I
And by the way, what the hell does a master's in TEFL entail that really benefits the average beginner to UI student? I am interested to hear? Is it not also possible that a masters in TEFL is also jumping on the 'let's make some cash' bandwagon?
Please let me know what your thoughts are on this matter. |
Andare is this a troll post?
Every so often you get someone who comes here and justifies to themselves why they make good teachers, even better teachers, without actually having the qualifications and training to replace those teachers they complain so bitterly about.
Being popular is not the same as good teaching, and you simply equate uuniversity teaching with being a highly paid dancing bear. You are entitled to your opinion, but i for one do not see my job that way.
Having a Masters in TEFL means you have spent some time and serious money in becoming academically qualified, reasonably knowledgeable about my subject and are in a position to speak with authority and knowledge on your chosen specialty. A guy with a BA at Westgate comes in a couple of times a week, shoots the breeze with students and then leaves and calls it teaching.
I get paid what I do because I have acquired academic qualifications, experience and I know what i am talking about when I teach a lesson. I have academically proved myself. The Westgate guy simply looks at the guy with the MA and thinks "what can he do that I cant do?". its all a matter of perspective. If you think you dont need an MA to teach a college class here, well you are entitled to your opinion.
I teach beginner classes too, but I teach it with the benefit of a couple of years of professional training. a few years of experience behind me, not just going in "off the boat" and charming the socks of your students because you are a nice charming and personable guy who can teach them in an eikaiwa lesson. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Posts: 811 Location: Japan
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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Andare, didn't mean to strike a nerve with my silly posts. I'm sure you are a great teacher. Heck, you sound a lot more knowledgeable on this topic then myself! E.g., you ask why "scab" labor is a problem, not to mention the difference between a "professional" teacher (a.k.a., some loser with only "degrees" and so-called "appropriate" teaching experience) and someone like yourself. These are great questions, and you know, I don't think I have any good answers.
Yes, Andare, I respect the fact that, despite your chaotic work schedule, you still manage to conduct a needs analysis (however abbreviated) for each of your classes, tailoring your subject matter and presentation for the varying requirements of students at each of your schools (i.e., no Mc-Lessons for you!). I know you use the results of this analysis to develop level- and learner-appropriate learning outcomes for each of your courses (i.e., no waltzing in and out of each class with a random, xeroxed copy from a textbook and a few jokes). I realize you then repeatedly evaluate acquisition of these learning goals in a valid and reliable fashion (i.e., you actually seek both to reinforce and to build on the skills learned each week, and so need to measure student understanding as well).
Furthermore, I know you are flexible enough in your time and scheduling to be there for those students who cannot/do not respond in a traditional classroom setting, who need additional supplementary assistance outside the classroom (say, during your office hours) to be successful. I understand, as well, how you are an advocate at each of your universities for effective alternative learning opportunities and their usage, working with the often extremely conservative (dare I say backward and ignorant?) Japanese faculty to provide not just a better single class, but a better overall curriculum. Heck, despite your very busy schedule, you not only contribute in this way at each of your several institutions but, through your ongoing research and its publication, to the whole field!
Finally, I know you fully realize that the greatest challenges--and most of the "fun"--of learning a foreign language lie in the relationships engendered. Accordingly, despite being ostensibly a very temporary employee, you remain there for those of your students who may need you, even years later. Indeed, you provide much more than simple, one-off language instruction; as silly as this may sound to someone not you, for many Japanese teachers and students, you are "Kokusaika." Hence, it is to you that teachers often turn when they have, say, cultural questions or want to set up overseas study exchanges, and it is to you that students turn when they wish to discuss alternative career options and/or continuing their education abroad.
Truly, I admire you, Andare. This will come as a shock, but most "scabs" lack the time, resources, knowledge and incentive to do any of the above. Heck, because of the lack of emphasis placed in Japanese schools on either professionalism or mastering English (i.e., the system-wide problems I mention in my earlier posts), many professional foreign teachers in Japan decide they cannot/will not do these things either. I mean, why should they bother? In the current environment, applying one's education/experience and acting like a true professional does little to improve one's long-term employability and/or economic stability. Given this, why should anyone put the necessary time and effort in--especially when any day they might be replaced by a younger, cuter, and especially cheaper scab?
Worse, with the continued "dispatching" of English instruction to "scabs" (most of whom lack your impressive understanding of pedagogical theory and intense dedication to the profession), the situation will continue to deteriorate. I mean, who do you think were teaching the general English courses before the advent of the dispatch companies? Not the Japanese faculty (who teach most of the plum courses to English majors), but the professional foreign faculty. Even more than before, I see the Japanese faculty/administrators coming now to regard foreigners as merely disposable babysitters for "problem" (i.e., general English) classes. Students will continue to get the crap education they've always received, while skilled foreign professionals will either continue to dumb their standards down or leave Japan.
Which brings me to this final question:
| Quote: |
| By the way what system on ths planet justifiably rewards skill and dedication. |
Uh, the university "systems" in Canada, the UK, Australia, the US, etc.? I mean, while no "system" is perfect and abuses certainly occur, teaching and research excellence are rewarded at most universities in these countries.
How do I know? After a long number of years working my butt off--without recognition--doing all the things mentioned in my rant above, I quit my Japanese university and took a position at a relatively prominent university in the States. And yes, salaries initially do suck here compared to Japan. And yes, I fully realize Western universities have their own problems (e.g., the adjunct faculty situation). However, effective teaching and research excellence are recognized, both with increased salaries and with tenure. Moreover, the latter is actually earned--unlike in Japan, where all Japanese receive it at the date of hire but most foreigners are excluded permanently and completely.
Good luck to you, Andare. |
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Crab
Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 40 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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The issue of providing "quality language training" has a long and troubled history in Japan. If one keeps this context in mind, the latest trend of replacing qualified, expereienced instructors with untrained rookies is not surprising.
To see exactly what I mean, give this a read:
http://www.nucba.ac.jp/cic/pdf/njlcc041/05REESOR.PDF |
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julieoapw
Joined: 01 Apr 2004 Posts: 31
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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:34 pm Post subject: Westgate scabs |
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I object to the offensive term "Westgate scab." At the university I worked at, the students had their main lessons with properly-qualified, contracted, English speaking staff. The Westgate course was an optional extra which students paid for, so they could have extra conversation practice in smaller groups than normal classes permitted. Also not everyone who teaches on the Westgate scheme is a youngster with no knowledge or the desire to teach well. I was 42 and had taught EFL for several years even if I had no MA, and I think I was well-enough qualified to teach that sort of class. I just wanted a 3 month contract.
To bandy around words like scab is over the top and ill-informed. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Posts: 811 Location: Japan
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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Westgate scabs |
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| julieoapw wrote: |
I object to the offensive term "Westgate scab." At the university I worked at, the students had their main lessons with properly-qualified, contracted, English speaking staff. The Westgate course was an optional extra which students paid for, so they could have extra conversation practice in smaller groups than normal classes permitted. Also not everyone who teaches on the Westgate scheme is a youngster with no knowledge or the desire to teach well. I was 42 and had taught EFL for several years even if I had no MA, and I think I was well-enough qualified to teach that sort of class. I just wanted a 3 month contract.
To bandy around words like scab is over the top and ill-informed. |
I'm glad you got your 3-month contract, and I agree you were more than qualified to run "that sort of class." Hope you didn't fail too many students while you were in Japan on your teaching, uh, holiday.  |
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julieoapw
Joined: 01 Apr 2004 Posts: 31
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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:47 pm Post subject: don't call me ascab |
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Jeez you've got a problem. You can't post or discuss without being offensive. I notice you don't bother answering my main point about calling people scab.
And if you think working 5 days a week from 9 to 6 is a holiday then I hope you enjoy your next holiday.
If an MA/PHD whatever make you as offensive and insulting as this I'm glad I haven't got one |
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JimDunlop2

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan
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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: Westgate scabs |
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| julieoapw wrote: |
| I object to the offensive term "Westgate scab." |
Wonderful. It was indeed meant offensively.
I wouldn't call it inappropriate, however. Merriam-Webster says:
Scab:
3 a : a contemptible person b (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms
As far as I can tell, what happened to R. Redfield is EXACTLY the definition of what a scab is. But if you truly object to the term, I think I can convince the people in the thread to replace it with: "the contemptible, unqualified, replacement labour who screwed Redfield and other teachers out of a job." Feel better? |
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julieoapw
Joined: 01 Apr 2004 Posts: 31
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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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Try readingmy post before getting on your hobby horse and being offensive:
| Quote: |
| At the university I worked at, the students had their main lessons with properly-qualified, contracted, English speaking staff. The Westgate course was an optional extra |
I totally agree that Andare being made redundant to be replaced by cheaper labour is bang out of order and, if they knew about the circumstances, other teachers should have refused the work.
I'm just saying that that was not the case at my college. Remember EEC recruit abroad and unless they read this board, newly arrived teachers would have no idea of this situation. |
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JimDunlop2

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan
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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Sure. How would people know the situation? You think ECC would tell them that a long-standing professor has been laid off in favor of hiring the company they are working for? Not likely. But that's like crossing the picket line when the grocery store workers go on strike, saying, "I've gotta buy groceries here to feed my family." No you don't. Not unless it's the only store in town (which is rarely the case). You make choices. If you make the choice to work for (or give business to) an outfit that does contemptible things, then you should not be surprised when people associate you with that company and lump you in the same boat. No, you personally did not screw anyone out of a job, but your company DID -- and you are fueling their efforts by working in that environment.
At some point, people (whether they are aware of the situation or not) must get educated and take responsibility for their own actions. If I found out that I had been used by my company to take someone else's job away, I guarantee I would not be working for them for very long. |
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