Job Discussion Forums

[balatro]

I know within the States that college prestiege is a PLUS when it comes to a lot of employers and so I assume it's the same when it comes to overseas to some degree but probably even less so?

I had the full intention of attending a local state school within North Carolina (UNC to be exact) but I knew that I had been accepted into Cornell however the finances of it precluded my enrollment however Cornell came back this morning and have bumped up my academic scholarship to $30,000 and offered a Federal work study for $5,000.

Anyway, I'm seriously thinking of taking the offer and making Cornell home to me ... and I hate to sound like such a snoob saying this but does college prestiege provide you with better job contracts within the TEFL job market? I'm unsure as to what age level I'd like to teach but probably teenager/adult -- high school and/or University level students more than likely. I'm looking at a definant major in Computer Science (that's the major I was accepted into at Cornell, and transfering out of CoE is nearly impossible which is ok with me, CS is my first love. However I intend on double majoring and choosing English or Philosophy as my 2nd major.

How well would a CS and Philosophy/English double major benefit in the TEFL market? I know someone with degrees and certificate is always preferred. Just trying to get an understanding of what I could look at to come 4 years from now or so.

Thanks in advance,

David

[ls650]

[Chan]

I personally don�t think it matters that much. It certainly hasn�t in my experience. Cornell is a very good school, but so is UNC. It�s actually highly ranked among U.S. universities and has a good reputation. My experience is with international schools, so someone else may need to correct me if I�m wrong, but having a degree is the most important thing. As long as the school is legitimate (accredited), I think you should be okay.

[EnglishBrian]

Generally speaking any old degree will do. If you want to get into teaching in universities or some of the higher paying jobs in the Middle East for example, a relevant degree might be necessary - then again, so might a Masters (and lots of experience)! There's no hard and fast rule - varies place to place and job to job I believe. Having a relevant degree never hurts though - might give you an extra leg up somewhere along the line.

As to different universities, I don't think it'll make a blind bit of difference in the 'general teaching world'. You'll probably find where you end up going that 'Cornell' is a well known local brand of washing powder or some such. I don't know but perhaps if you're applying to teach in universities, they may have some idea of which are the famous ones, but outside that exclusive club, foreign employers probably won't have any idea. Or worse, they have heard of it and refuse to believe your certificates are real.

[marblez]

I don't think the prestige of university or specifics of majors/minors is what should concern you in your first year of university.

In your position, I think it's important to explore various subjects and see what interests you, then go on from there. Don't jump the gun and map your future before the age of 25. Take a wide variety of subjects, join some clubs, go to BBQ's and parties, ask out that cute girl you see on campus, and enjoy life.

I can't stress this enough!!! If I could go back to first year, I would have taken my own advice. However, since I don't have a time machine, I'll just dispense it.

[tedkarma]

For opening up career options, the most important factor will be a graduate degree in the area - or at least peripherally related to the area - in which you wish to teach. This will get you off the bottom of the food chain and make your life much easier. It will also open up university level positions and greatly expand the amount of vacation time you have. Will also - generally speaking (Japan excepted - before the Japan-o-philes get too worked up) help you land uni/college type jobs in the better paying countries of the Far East and or Middle East.

Generally speaking, a BA/BS only will tend to limit you to bottom feeding - and you'll most likely never be able to really look at EFL as a real career option.

Few people overseas pay any attention to university status levels. In fact, they may never have heard of the schools you are talking about. If you said Harvard, maybe. MIT, maybe - maybe not, but not much else.

Just my opinion.

[Henry_Cowell]

David, how would you like the endless, dark winters in the snowbelt of upstate New York, cut off from civilization? How would you like trudging up and down steep hills, especially with wind and ice? Would you be pleased to be on a campus that anecdotally (but not in fact) has one of the highest suicide rates in the U.S.?

It's really depressing and snobby there. If you're not in a fraternity, then social life in the town of Ithaca is truly abysmal. For a really big night out, you can drive an hour north to Syracuse (make that two hours in winter).

If you're shaking your head "No" to any of this, then stick with Chapel Hill. Great, very highly ranked school (frequently ranked one of the top five public universities in the nation). Excellent C.S. department. Mild winters. Much less faux-Ivy snobbery. Excellent basketball and campus spirit: rivalry with Duke! Terrific restaurants. Close to mountains and seashore. Virtually no suicides!

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

People are likely to react to your degree from a good US school in exactly the same manner as most Americans would react to being told that someone had a degree from UofT or Queens or Waterloo in Canada. They won't have heard of these schools, or at most the name will have a vaguely familiar ring to it.

I agree with the previous poster that it's far more important to choose a relevant major and to get into a good MA if you want to make a career out of it. That said, my majors were English and Musicology, but my initial teacher training was a year-long university linguistics department programme (TESL Certificate- very similar or the same as an MA TESOL terminal degree in the US according to profs. It often doesn't open up the doors that an MA TESOL does, however, simply because it isn't called an MA) and the next step is an MA in Applied Linguistics (TEFL). If I'd majored in Linguistics, (espcially if I specialized 4-year Linguistics only degree) instead of the four year double major I could probably have saved myself a year by getting the certificate as part of it. But then my ability to analyze chord progressions to make my own guitar arrangements of children's songs for elementary school visits wouldn't be nearly as good.

A BA is a first step. You can use aspects of many areas in which you can major in the ESL and/or EFL classrooms, although philosophy may not be as directly applicable as other subjects like English, Education (obviously), History (social history can be used pretty easily because the history of education is usually taught as an aspect of it. In ESL classes students may have questions about your country if they need to do a test for citizenship requirements), drama, creative writing etc.

[balatro]

I figured I would take this time to reply and provide some more information as far as my goals:

I want to major in Computer Science and take part in research pertaining to artifical intelligence and human cognitive language development. Both are less famous concentrations of Computer Science but my favorite areas to explore that I had the honor to get my feet wet in with a research professor at NCSU (North Carolina State University).

My research interests naturally spill over to the areas of English, Philosophy, and Linguistics. More so philosophy rather linguistics because I prefer the areas of how humans react to learning a language, the thought processes we go through, and the system we follow to learn a language ... where is linguistics is the study of language itself where is I prefer the thought processes behind the study of the language.

I'd like to travel abroad for 1-2 years after Graduation to travel a while, teach, and spread my love of the English language in nontraditional means.

Come back to the States for Graduate school ... probably the route of a Masters and then see if a PhD holds an interest for me.

Once I'm done with my traditional academic studies (I say traditional beause as my Grandfather told me, an Oxford alum, "The truly intelligent never stop learning") -- I'd like to pursue a teaching post within Europe at a University, perhaps even Asia if I knew more about that continent.

I apologize once again if I come off as snooby, I know I do it from time to time ... I was one of the more fortunate ones in that my parents and grandparents instilled a very hard and tedious study of academics in me. My father once said "I don't care if you want to end up being a car mechanic, you'll bust your a** in school and make straight A's so that way you'll have free choice amongst the best schools to be a car mechanic" -- which at the time I thought sounded retarded but I understand more now. My school, while a public school, was in a high end community and has access to dual enrollment with Wake Forest University and I took full advantage of courses there as early as my Sophomore year in HS due to my grades. This all came at a cost and thus I had a very weak childhood and very few friends ... I'm trying now to makeup for lost ground and enjoy what's left of my youth.

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

[31]

[EnglishBrian]

Yeh! Choose your degree for your real long term future in the US. Any degree will be good enough for a TEFL job.

If it turns out you love this business you could do a Masters in TEFL later.

[balatro]

31, I don't really appreciate your comments at all. You may find it that anyone that wants to do TEFL is a failure and someone to be laughed at but I do not.

I enjoy English and creative writing. I enjoyed what chance I had to tutor Hispanics in English after hours in School. It was my escape from having to sit in a class all day and ram quantum physics models and differential equations into my head -- to be able to just sit there and watch the progress over a period of 9 months with someone as they studied one of the hardiest languages in the world -- to see that "light" click on in their eyes when they finally understood and smiled with delight when you told them "Wonderful job!!" and they understood you and knew it to be true too.

It is very well to pursue both passions of teaching and research and I plan to accomplish just that. I'm not going to restrict myself to doing one thing for the rest of my life or for the next 20 years. Life is too short and too precious not to experiment. Everyone should be forced to climb out of their comfort zone and go into an area that will challenge them.

I will not let some scoundrel like you "31" ruin my desire to teach English abroad.

[31]

[Henry_Cowell]

Cognitive science in general (and cognitive linguistics in particular) are currently cutting-edge disciplines. Should you pursue an M.A., and especially a Ph.D., you would of course have many opportunities to teach those disciplines in foreign universities if you still have the desire to live abroad.