Job Discussion Forums

[Klamm]

I just want to throw something out there: how important is a degree, and how much does it add to your salary?

Last year I worked at a language center that hired an individual with a fake degree at about the same salary as myself (I was making 5,000Rmb, he 4,500Rmb). We discovered his degree was fake and presented this to our boss and...let's just say it became clear that she didn't care and was only concerned about the whiteness of his skin and the hope that people bought that his degree was fake!

There was a nearby college paying 5,000Rmb for lots of folk with BA's from third world country. I'm not looking down upon these folk, but I do believe my BA English from a very respectable USA University should earn a little more, especially when you consider the tuition would've run me well into debt save for scholarships (20,000US a year!). It's also worthy noting that these individuals from third or second world countries where not even native English speakers!!!

Can anyone help on this? Can I find a job that will pay me respectably and respect my qualifications? If such folk are getting 5,000Rmb, and shady cowboys with fake degrees can get 4,500Rmb...can't I get a little more? I've studied Latin, I've read and studied hundreds books (I carry a chest full of everything from Proust to Joyce)...I have a great value to offer. I must be in the wrong country, yet I love China. Is it possible to get a fair deal here?

[woza17]

I won't mention names but we have one guy here, none native speaker who is making 17000RMB, no degree. Hope that cheers you up.
regards carol

[Minhang Oz]

Is he from Colombia, and named Hector?
But thanks Carol, I'm sure that cheers all of us qualified teachers up.

[Hamish]

Just thinking out loud�

5,000 yuan salary
600 yuan (est) housing

5,600 yuan per month = $677 US per month = $8,125 US per year.

The average income in China has yet to reach $1,000 per year. Thus, with a degree and a box of books, you can earn close to nine times what the average Chinese makes!

I am certain you cannot earn nine times the average income in America so easily. (US average income in 2002 = $30,941 (source ttp://www.unm.edu/~bber/econ/us-pci.htm) times 8.5 = $262,998 US)

Of course, half of the Chinese earn LESS than less than $1,000 US annually. They do so by sweeping streets all day, fixing bicycle tires all day, selling milk on the street all day.

All day. Every day.

I know you see it too, and this is not a lecture. I�m just jabbering.

Frankly, I am amazed at the status the Chinese give to a Western degree. It is far more status economically and socially than is accredited to the accomplishment at �home.�

Perhaps this is because the people back �home� know how little our degrees actually mean in most cases.

�� went to the finest school�but only got juiced in it!� Or words to that effect�Bob Dylan.

Regards,

[Bertrand]

[Bertrand]

[Roger]

Quals and experience seldom matter, and if they do it is for ornamental purposes only. If you do have experience you would have to disagree with what you are told by your boss most of the time, and that's not what they want you to do!
Salaries for expats are inflated relative to the salaries of Chinese teachers with their uni degrees (but poor grasp of how to teach a second tongue).

Besides, after five years you are legally out; although some can stay longer (I have done so), but in theory our shelflife has expired by then.
The PSB are supposed to see to that! They do not always do it, but they can! You will have to leave, and come back a year or two later from outside!
Shouldn't our continuing experience in mainland China increase our market value?

[ESL Guru]

Roger -

Check with your FAO. I think there is a change in policy re the 5 years expiration date!

[Hamish]

[woza17]

minghang you're close.
Cheers Carol

[smarts]

[Klamm]

They're two different things. Who can explain the difference?

I could reply to several of the posts here, but really they merely cumulatively serve to show the ridiculous and absurd nature of taking your job the least bit seriously here in China. Enjoy the experience, get drunk, don't bother beyond that.

Salary vs. locals? Please. Are you recruiting for a school and trying to sell that? We all know the value of a foreigner and even strong education (sorry to bring that up in this industry)...would you prefer you be paid less in your country? These schools do well. Plenty of money in Guangdong, Shanghai, and Beijing, yes indeed!

Knowing Latin, translating Cicero etc... -just for little beady-eyed academics right? Hm. Isn't Latin the root and base of the English language? Don't our lists of medical and scientific terms stem from this archaic and silly language? Doesn't a knowledge of Latin's complex grammar greatly enhance an individuals understanding of English grammar? Certainly did for me, but maybe not for you! Again, see the top. Work on those terms.

I just think its sad. If China pays 17,000Rmb for fake degree non-native speakers, yet does not push a real and sincere education initiative along side this economic development, I'd say they're getting rather stupid and allowing their children, and selves generally, to become more ignorant with the economic development. That kind of philosophy works for a short time, but will gradually erode its development later on. How? Allow me not to insult an educated reader.

[Hamish]

I understand that you are upset.

I just don�t see any necessary connection between the reputation of the institution from which one has earned a degree, or the specificity of the major, and ability to teach English to Chinese students. In fact, as we go up the scale of institutional reputation, and rise as well toward a pure English major, it is arguable that a reverse correlation exists. Very educated and highly trained English majors from excellent schools many times cannot bear up under daily contact with people who are still struggling with �A sentence starts with a capital letter and ends with a period.�

I have only been here for a year, but I have never had to discuss the Latin roots of any word (not that I could in very many cases), or group of words, I was attempting to communicate. I agree that training in Latin is not wasted effort, and I admire it. In my experience it has little application these days, even in better American high schools and Universities.

As for your box of books, you are fortunate indeed if you are able to share �Remembrance Of Things Past� with many of your students, or fellow teachers for that matter.

In my opinion, the teacher must be able to use English well, but most important, the teacher must want to teach. Teaching must be their chosen vocation and life. They cannot be �doing the teaching thing� while they really pursue some other agenda. In addition to teaching, one can and perhaps must have other interests, but teaching must be first, after family, food, and�what was that other thing I used to like to do?

Be glad that you have a real degree.

Now, how well do you teach?

Regards,

[Redfivestandingby]

Klamm, I understand how you feel. I come from an academic background(not English though). I have the degrees, languages, certificates, experience, etc... It doesn't matter. My current school's only concern was that I was not white.

The students who do care about learning will appreciate your Latin especially if they are learning another language(usually French). I also speak Spanish and it's been useful in teaching and making connections with other words in English. Luna lunar, lunatic.

Some of the posters stated that Latin would not be of any use in the US. They're probably right but many Americans really don't care about other languages anyway. Many people see Latin as a dead language. Very short-sighted of them. More power to you for learning.

[Count_Fathom]

I thought English was a Saxon/Germanic language. Many Latin derivitives, but much closer to German than French/Italian/Spanish.

I struggle daily with multiple uses/meanings of any particular word. No substitute for training in education, or beter yet ESL. My English training hinders progress, clouds words for my students.