Job Discussion Forums

[JonnytheMann]

[grahamb]

The greatest living Australian is undoubtedly Sir Les Paterson! No social gathering is complete without him.
I'd gladly feed Steve Irwin to the crocs, but they'd probably choke on him.

[Weona]

I definitely agree with Jonny. I think a lot of the dislike for American English stems from the dislike of American politics, culture, foreign policy, etc and not so much the accent itself. Within the U.S. itself the accent varies pretty heavily... especially the English spoken in the North East and Southern regions. Sometimes I can't even understand a southern U.S. English speaker

---

Australians are awesome travelers! I've met many in and around South America and they're always so friendly and really know how to have a good time. I also found this interesting... I've met people from S. America as well as some fellow Americans in the U.S. who tell me they can't tell the difference between the British and Australian accent. When I was in Argentina speaking English with a friend, a few Argentines thought we were from Germany because they said they thought we were speaking German. How is that? German ~ English? Not so similar!

Another interesting tidbit... sometimes I wonder how English speakers' accents are perceived by Latin Americans while speaking Spanish! Does that make sense? For instance, a few Chilean friends of mine tell me they can definitely tell the difference between an American speaking Spanish and a Brit speaking Spanish. How much of our own English accents (British, American, Irish, Canadian, Australian, etc etc) transcend into other languages?

[JonnytheMann]

Yup, Aussies are hands-down some of the most fun travelers out there. They also have my personal favorite accent in English.

Sometimes I wonder how English speakers' accents are perceived by Latin Americans while speaking Spanish!

It'd be very interesting to know what native speakers thought. Any native speakers out there who can tell us? I guess it might be like how Argentines, Spaniards, and Mexicans all sound different speaking English.

I'm sure if you can't do the Spanish R, then the way you pronounce R would probably tell the Spanish speaker whether your American/Canadian or British/Aussie. Probably the L, too.

[moonraven]

Although US English is my first language, I don't really like hearing it.

I would have to agree with many people whose first language is some form of English--or another language--who are sick and tired of hearing semi-literate phrases that begin with "like" several times in a "sentence", and other such inarticulate garbage.

I also don't appreciate listening to semi-lierate phrases that begin with "guey" several times in a "sentence", and other such inarticulate garbage. What I have noticed, however, is that in Latin America most folks outgrow that habit by the time they leave their teens.

Their "English-speaking" counterparts might want to consider outgrowing their tics as well. Or at least not complain when they are treated "unprofessionally" when they persist with them.

Just for the record: There is more than 1 Spanish "r".

[stillnosheep]

[amy1982]

as far as spanish-speakers' perceptions of english accents while speaking spanish... (aside from overaccentuating or general fumbling around with the language), i've been told that americans:

tend to soften certain sounds, such as the j in mejor, juan, etc.

don't roll r's properly (over- and under-rolling are common)

vowel sounds crossed between the american english and spanish sounds (especially with cognates or making an "a" sound more like the spanish "e")

lengthen the "o" sound

what do people think of the accent? i've always been told good things, but there are usually ulterior motives at work, so...

[Weona]

Sorry stillnosheep... German and English may both be "Germanic Languages", coming from the same area in Europe, but phonetically, they sound very different. Swedish, Dutch, and Yiddish are also Germanic but they sound nothing like English, either.

Perhaps because I'm a native English speaker it's a lot easier for me to detect differences between English and other languages and not so much for a group of oldish Argentine men.

And thanks amy, those are some interesting findings. I've never heard of Americans over rolling their r's though... didn't think that was possible!

[amy1982]

weona-

yeah, i didn't either. i think english speakers have trouble with the spanish r in general, so they end up rolling it some when they shouldn't. pero and perro sound the same because the r is rolled some in pero and not enough in perro... and then, when everyone is pointing out your accent, saying ANYTHING correctly becomes next to impossible!

i love it when i answer someone with a simple "no", and the next question is "oh, where are you from?" apparently "no" is also a tough one (or maybe that's just me )

[stillnosheep]

Sorry Weona, but you are speaking out of your arsch.

The two languages are not just both Germanic, until a couple of thousand years ago they were effectively the same language. English is just an evolved version of old German with French and Latin bells on.

Dutch and Yiddish sound very much like German; so much so that many Dutch people in Britain are thought to be German by the British, and so much so that every Dutch person that I have ever met could understand German with very little difficulty. Much of Yiddish is even closer to modern German - if you can speak one you can get by in the other - unsurprisingly given the origins and development of Yiddish.

Phonetically there are slight differences between English and German. They may seem huge to you but put three Germans (say one from Koln, one from Berlin and one from Austria or the German Swiss), a Dutchman and some English speakers (say one from Newcastle, one from South Carolina, a Cornishman and an Australian) in front of a panel of non-English speaking Japanese, Korean and Mandarin speakers, and the panel would be unable to tell which persons were speaking the same language and which not. The phonetic divisions within each language are as great as the phonetic differences between the major variants of each of them.

Because you speak English, and perhaps have little exposure to very different sounding languages, then to you they sound very different.

To any "group of oldish Argentine men" who had prerviously heard German beiong spoken, the language of an English-woman and her friend talking in English would sound very similar indeed to what they had previously heard. Similarly a group of oldish English (or German, or Dutch) men, having previously heard a little French, or Spanish, or Portuguese, or Catalan, or Italian, subsequently hearing a group of peple speaking any other of these languages would very well assume them to speaking the language which they had previously heard so similar are their cadences and phonemes. Yet to speakers of the Romance languages they all sound totally different.

The Argentinians thought that you were speaking German because German speakers are fairly common in Argentina and because English and German, in terms of their phonetic structure, their vocabulary, their pitch and tonal variation and their rhythm are very very similar. You may also look North European. Similarly Koreans and Chinese in Britain are often though to be Japanese, and Japanese and Koreans to be Chinese, even though these languages really are completely different. To the untrained English ear they sound the same.

[Weona]

I'm what? Because to me, German and English do not sound phonetically similiar, I don't know what I'm talking about? Right.

I'm not comparing German and other languages, nor am I talking about the origins of German and English thousands of years ago... I simply stated that despite having Germanic background, English and German sound nothing alike TO ME and I found it interesting that it did to an Argentine, especially with the influx of English speakers to Argentina, American television in Argentina, American/British film, etc.

[JonnytheMann]

[thelmadatter]

[stillnosheep]

Thanks thelmaddater, I was quite pleased with that one myself!

JonnytheMann, I was very very nice im my first post. But then the poor lass goes and assures me of my incorrectness on the basis of her astoundingly Anglo-centric for an EFL teacher personal opinion. And follows up by generalising it to include half the languages in Europe, without reading my post properly - it's point being not just that the two languages came "from the same area in Europe" but that they were, until recently, effectively one language.

But If I was a little ungentle then I apologise, Weona; put it down to professional pride. And I'm sorry for the Arsch/arse joke; just couldn"t resist it I guess.

But (screaming rhetorically) are we not supposed to be English Teachers?! . What is going on here?: "Australians are awesome travelers!" What? All of them? "German ~ English? Not so similar!" (er, already done to death!). "Another interesting tidbit" What is this, the Reader"s Digest? (and titbit has two "t"s). "How much of our own English accents [...] transcend into other languages?" Transcend? Transcend! Transcend!?!?!?! It transcends my ability to remain the sweet natured, innocent girl that I never was to be faced with such rubbish. From a student OK, but from a Teacher? From an English Teacher? No wonder the profession has such a bad rep in places and wages are falling across much of the world. Trans-bloody-cend! Transcendental misappropriation more like! (a bit like what happened to my birthright once those bloody Normans came stalking through the door whilst Harold (good old english name that) was up Stamford Bridge way routing the Norsemen (harrumph).

ps. It's allright Weona, we all make typos and come out with the wrong word on occasion, and if you are not an English Teacher then 100,000 apologies for treating you as tho' you were and I'll never do it again and will whip myself to sleep with nettles and wear a hair shirt from now until the Kuhe come home but, upon reflection, do you not find your post just a tad, well, vacuous?

And now you can come back and call me all the synonyms for "rudest, most arrogant, poncing ponce on the entire planet" that you can find and I won't contradict you at all.

Promise.

[moonraven]

As I have been living in Latin America for more than a dozen years, I speak Spanish with a Mexican accent. Which makes the American accent rather a moot issue.