Job Discussion Forums

[jencoyle]

Hello folks

I'm applying for a DOS position with EF and would like to get an idea of what I'm letting myself in for.

In particular I would like to know if, as a female I should expect any different treatment and/or expexctations of my work. Has anyone noticed any difference in the salary they receive compared to their male counterparts? Are there any social or cultural landmines for a foreign female in China that I should be aware of?

Any experiences shared, good or bad would be much appreciated.

Thankyou in advance and all the best

[tw]

Just by merely uttering the two letters "EF" is enough to make a few people here cringe.

[Roger]

THere is such a position in a Shandong EF branch that some friend of mine thinks is suited because an insider there who is female too is full of praise.
Not all EF's are in the bin! And, being female makes absolutely no difference, according to many who have worked there. For the better or the worse.

[brsmith15]

It's the worst of all worlds. You'll be hated by the teachers and ridiculed by the Chinese owners. You'll get no support for what you want to do and will be constantly frustrated...........That is, if the job stays true to form.

You might be one of the lucky ones, but don't count on it.

[wonderd]

I'm surprised gibson hasn't popped in here yet. From what I've heard about this company and this position, the only words of advice I can give are "run run run."

[tony lee]

Have a look at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TEFLChinaJob/message/8475

and then follow that thread backwards and read the previous few by that poster and a couple of replies too.. She is a DOS at one EF branch

[englishgibson]

[gulam2]

I have simple advice for you DONT.
Above someone suggested you read Dee,s posts.
Do read them and ALL the replies.
She trys to make it sound great --- But read between the lines.
Your salary will probably be 9,000 not a bad salary for EF BUT........
[email protected]

[hermoine]

I was a DOS for many years and I have to say it is the LONELIEST job in China.

If you are really dedicated and you work long hours, it's hard to find time to go out and meet people.

I don't think it's a good idea as a manager to develop close friendships with your teachers. It breeds favoritism and resentment from other teachers. If you have a falling out with someone, it creates more problems. The teachers tend to see you more as the enemy than as a friend.

If you already have a strong network of friends in the city, then go for it.

You need to have a very thick skin. Expect people to hate you, resent you and blame you for all of their problems.

You must also be able to work well with the Chinese staff.

The better your Chinese is, the easier your job will be.

Read up on management books. Being a great teacher helps, but it is not enough.

As far as sexism goes, I didn't notice any huge differences. Some of the foreing male teachers, though, tend to think they can bully you. Maybe, the chinese female staff are more helpful towards the male DOS than the female DOS.

GOOD LUCK!!!!

[deezy]

Hi guys, it's deezy again... obviously you all think I'm one of those people who cannot be objective, since you seem to think that all I do is sing the praises of EF.

Well, all I can say is that I've had my 'moments'. It can be a very tough job; I was recently helped a great deal by posters not only on this forum but another one, when I needed advice (englishgibson was one... cheers and beers eg). I've never pretended it's a walk in the park.

Overall I think the most important skill besides being an experienced teacher, thus understanding what the teachers have on their plates, is to have management experience. Which I have. I've even taught management. This, plus being able to create a team atmosphere, rather than heirarchical. It's likely that few DoSes have management experience, since they have not lived as long as I have, nor have they had several careers, as I have. But there are some damn good DoSes at EF, and some damn good CMs.... but then we don't hear about them, do we? Because bad news travels fast, and because when someone says something good about a franchise they are shouted down.

My Chinese management own one of the biggest chains of private Chinese schools, the founders having been teachers all their lives, then started the chain with just 15 students some 10 years ago. This may be one of the reasons that we do, most of the time see eye to eye. They also now have two EFs and plan two more in the near future. This is a good thing, as if a teacher doesn't like the place they go to, they will have the option to relocate within the 'group'. Although, of course, Weihai is the best As another poster said, most franchisees do not have teaching experience, nor do they have management experience.

And yes it can be a lonely job... as I used to say to my management trainees "Welcome to management". Being a DoS is not a piece of cake. It's hard work, it's a balancing act, it includes pastoral duties which needs empathy, and more than half my time at present is taken up with recruitment efforts, because our schools insist on (a) qualifications (b) teachers who are likely to 'fit in' with our team (c) native speakers (d) paperwork which enables us to get the correct permits. I would add that when someone applies I direct them to Daves to see the negatives, I tell them exactly what to expect here, and I give them the contact details for my existing teachers. I am totally upfront (as Calum will I am sure confirm). This way I hopefully get teachers who know what they are coming to.

I am friends with all my teachers, and my Chinese co-workers. But, we keep work and personal time separate. They know that whatever they say or do outside of work has no bearing, as far as I am concerned, on what happens during work hours. We often go out together, I do some retail therapy with my only female teacher, and we have a lot of fun. If this were not the case, I'd be very lonely, since Weihai isn't exactly a big city. We recently had a party to which all the expats in town came, and the apartment wasn't crowded at all.

You need to have a pretty strong sort of personality, male or female, to do this job. I don't believe it makes any difference being a female. I know I could never have done this job 25 years ago; I wouldn't have had the management experience and people skills needed. I also wouldn't have had the backup I have from my mentor, who is my best friend and husband. I've learnt a lot, over the past year, and am not yet ready to abandon ship, although there's been a couple of times recently when I felt like it... but isn't that so with any job?

[englishgibson]

Thanks Deezy! And many of us should also thank you for your absolutely honest participation on this forum.

Maybe I�ll contradict you here or maybe I won�t, but I might add that being a �damn good DOS� does not sometimes necessarily mean that you will succeed in the EF English First in China. You�ve got to cope well with the EF English First confusing organizational structure, you�ve got to get along well with your employer (the CM/Investor) and you�ve got to follow well the politics of EF English First in China.

With regards to being straightforward with the applicants for teaching posts in China (EF centers), your procedures of directing your applicants to daves forum is incredible, even though I feel that some might soon confront you on this issue here on the forum.

[tony lee]

[deezy]

Yes, Englishgibson, you are absolutely right....

being a damn good DoS.... and having a damn good CM.... still may not mean that you have a damn good school.... or a damn good job!!

[cj750]

Tony, I am curious about something. When you say that you advised teachers not to accept certain parts of their contracts, and you expect to lose an odd commission, but you will gain loyal clients in the end. Most FTs are not here on a career basis and therefore will not be continued clients.
I thought by the very nature of your business that the school/compay is your client.

[tw]