Job Discussion Forums

[tw]

[dajiang]

I think it looks alright.
18 hrs, good secondary benefits, airfare reimbursement.

I think you could bargain for more though.
Especially if you're well qualified and have teaching experience.

Check out the location as well.
If it's way out of the city and you'd be confined to the campus or something you might not want work there. If it's near the center on the other hand I wouldn't mind the money that much.

Anyway, about the trend of wages going down:
it's all supply and demand. Can't do much about it except make sure you don't feel scammed.

Dajiang

[waxwing]

So, is there a downward trend or not?
The only evidence I have (as I finish my first year) is that it seems I received less offers from Universities (I'm not really interested in private schools) this year than last year. I think I applied at roughly the same time, though I'm not sure, and I think I used the same websites.
That would be reasonably good evidence to suggest that the supply/demand equation has changed ... would be, if it wasn't so vague and anecdotal.
Here's an idea (pure speculation): maybe up until last year, there were always new public Universities wanting teachers for the first time, whereas now pretty much all the Universities who want bods have them.
Or maybe there's just a huge influx of people thinking it would be a good idea to come here and teach.

Does anyone have any concrete information about this? It would be really useful.

[tw]

[kev7161]

OP here, weighing in again.

Without ruffling too many feathers, I still think 3500rmb is too low - - for me, at least. As I stated, I first made 4000 a month for 18 45-minute periods per week (although, I never worked that many!). And some of you are right; I "got by". If I was a good little penny-pincher, then 4000 would last me right up to next payday. I did have a couple of bills back home that had to be taken care of, so I'd convert about a third of my salary every month and send it back to the US. That left me with about 2800rmb as "mad" money. Yes, in China, 2800 can go a long way. It's STILL more than my Chinese colleagues make each month (and I feel for them, I really do. It's a stinky situation that these "revered" teachers are in.).

But, guess what? I never went anywhere beyond Hangzhou. By the time I bought a few DVDs, some food, had a meal or two out, entertained guests by springing for dinner, got my hair cut, a couple of massages (REAL massages, thank you), paid for transportation, bought a couple of books, replaced some worn out shoes, bought cleaning supplies and toiletries . . . the money would disappear. So, I wasn't really EXPERIENCING China, I was just living in a city in China. Different to be sure, but not much difference compared to my life back home.

This past year, I was bumped up to 5000 rmb. Nothing much has changed from the previous paragraph, but I managed to visit Thailand, Malaysia, and Singapore this year. I've made more frequent trips to Shanghai. I haven't cringed quite as much when I buy a box of imported cereal. Overall, 1000rmb is not like manna from heaven, but that increase sure has been nice.

Next year, I will double my salary with only a slight increase of number of working hours. Plus I'll get all the basics such as apartment, meals, etc. If things work out well, I should be able to actually SAVE some money for my eventual return to the states and still have enough play money to really see parts of China that I've only talked about before (and maybe return to Thailand or go to Japan).

So, I think if you are happy with a low salary, then bravo for you. That really is great. If you feel those making higher salaries are over-rated and quite possibly an embarrassment to the FT community, well I don't know what to say about that. But for those of you that are "settling" for 3500 and wish it could be more, there are ways to make more. There are jobs out there. You may have to work for a year or more to build some experience and make some connections, but you'll find it.

[lagerlout2006]

Fair enough Kev. But on one hand you are saying you did OK on 4000 (remit money home go to Thailand etc) and on the other saying "How can anyone setlle for that?"

I also am earning about double what I first earned..I do find though the College atmosphere offers a MUCH cheaper lifestyle. Subsidized meals etc---on the higher pay you also get taxed-pay utils etc etc. The main thing is there is more pressure..(IMO)

As for work there is no question it is ,more difficult but still quite easy if you will take ANY deal.

Last January I had a really tough time and left China for a while. It seemed schools hired in Sept and were set for the winter. Of course in the Chinese fashion once term starts there is a big hiring panic.


Anyway don't expect salaries to go up. And it does seem more expensive here but that's another cup of tea.

[Zero Hero]

To put that into perspective, I teach a part-time Sunday course at the OUHK and I earn $3,000 HK for a 4-hour class. I get $12,000 HK for 16 hours a month, and this institution you refer to offers but 3,500 Yuan for a month of full-time work!

Are you sure the advertisement is not a spoof? It is not clear who would accept such a low-paying post anywhere in the world, let alone in the world's fastest growing economy.

[tw]

You can't compare HK salary with Chinese salary, just like you wouldn't compare Canadian salaries with American salaries.

[lagerlout2006]

So you are saying you earn 750 HK or 100 US dollars an hour. More power to you---the only time I have made money at that rate was in a casino.

Anyway the 3500 is really closer to part time than full.

[Captain Yossarian]

I think Kev's response to his own thread is the best summation of my thoughts on this. Yes, FTs can find better deals than 3500 a month but, adding in the apartment and air fare costs, this is not an awfully bad deal at all - and is obviously more than the Chinese staff will get. 3,500 is actually plenty for those who have not succumbed to eating bad approximations of western food and thinking that 20RMB for average beers like Carlsberg, Corona or Budweiser is a good deal.

Contrary to what one poster said, Xi'an, like most provincial capitals, is not in any way representative of the west. Prices match the eastern cities for everything. Xi'an has probably had the most dramatic makeover in the last few years (check out the 1,600 fountains outside the Big Goose Pagoda, the smoking ban in the city centre, cheese shop (yes!) and proliferation of high end boutiques, pizza huts, coffee shops and trendy bars). Renting a nice 2-bed in Xi'an will cost you 2,000+ a month, which is the same as any big city barring BJ, SH & SHZ. Head a little way into Shaanxi (Hanzhong for example) and nice 3-bed apartment can be had for 3,500RMB a YEAR - now those are wild west prices (along with the 2RMB taxis and 1RMB noodles).

There are several posters here earning 8,000-14,000RMB a month. Those people are going to have a far higher standard of living than someone earning 20,000 pounds/dollars a year in the UK/US or 30,000 HK dollars a month in HK but, of course, converting RMB to pounds (15+ to 1RMB) is almost useless.

[ContemporaryDog]

[Captain Yossarian]

That's a fair point Contemporary Dog, though 120,000 RMB in China can buy you a whole load more (that's enough for three QQ cars or a new apartment in some cities) than 8,000 quid in the UK!

[peabocardigan]

One should keep in mind that most Chinese teachers in Xi'an probably make around RMB1500-2000 a month which is still a fairly well-paying job for local standards. Xi'an is developing at a fairly fast pace but it is still quite poor in comparison to the South and the Eastern Chinese Seaboard.

For GreatWallofWhiner- I don't think that paying FTs more increases the quality of teachers in China. I've seen plenty of FTs in classrooms who get paid much more than peanuts but who still behave like monkeys.

For ZeroHero- I agree that you can make much more money elsewhere in China, but the central mainland is poor and especially state-run universities here are pretty cash-strapped. You wouldn't go to Central Africa to get rich either, right? And you can live quite comfortable with that kind of salary here.

Overall, why shouldn't wages go down? If that's really the case it's a normal supply and demand process. More teachers, lower wages...

[Roger]

We always come back here to fight over who is right - and all the talk is about money.

I still maintain 3500 is a decent salary though it is not a top one. Why should public institutions pay us more? I see no reason at all, and I have been here a few years by now.

Salaries jumped up at the beginning of the new century; was that as a knee-jerk reaction to superstitious beliefs? Maybe! Some Guangdong public schools began luring people here with salaries of 8000 a motnh and all perks on top. Then came SARS, and many left - not necessarily getting their airfare or other dues.

Since then, there has been a steady trickle of job seekers, and the jobs have, perhaps, become scarcer. To me, the job figures have always been surrounded by speculation and over-expectations on the part of FTs. They take themselves way too importantly - why, the CHinese don't really need us, and if you believe otherwise you are a fool!

We are PR material, and one of us does a good enough job in attracting more students; there is seldom a need to hire several of us.

SUch figureheads get high salaries, but their jobs are wobbly. And their job description is rather lacklustre.

THis is why I emphasised the fact that the Xi'an job is offered to a holder of a mere bachelor's.

Come on - what kind of job and what kind of salary could a bachelor get in the U.S.A.?

Talking about he McDonaldisation of the world, are we?

I would also draw your attention to the fact that the CHinese institutions of higher learning have overspent over the last few years; look at their new campuses, white elephant buildings, useless or poorly-maintained language labs and other infrastructure - within a few years many a university will find it hard to scrape by on the existing tuition levels.

[benno]

One point that i think is important in all this...the hours we work here is damn easy, 16 - 20 hours, jeez you wont get that back home, spread out over a 5/6 day week thats a piece of cake

when i fist came to china i worked 3000 RMb for 16 hours, call me stupid or whatever but it was only an experience, its not like i was planning to work there forever, but i survived, had a good time, AND managed to save enough money to go to the world cup in korea, which is amazing when you think about it!!!


I am now not on the same salary, a bit higher (4500), but i am saving a lot, and living like a king, i am happy

and i will be soon going into a job for 8400 for 26 hours

but for me the most importnat thing is if the accomodation is paid electricity etc paid for, and if you have few hours to teach , whihc gives you time to do extra work (and make nice money parttime)

its a supply and demand issue, if you want big bucks what the *beep* are you still doing in china!!!!!!!

i paid my loan, gone to the world cup, have a shit load of DVDs /cds/computer games, digital camera, and saving as much as i would back home!