Job Discussion Forums

[denise]

There certainly can be. Using myself as an example--I have a very analytical mind, and I like to pick apart language, grammar, etc. to see if there is a formula or pattern underneath. Sometimes I have to resort to English to explain or discuss such patterns. If my students function in the same way, I do not stop them. I am not, however, suggesting that I turn a blind eye to excessive L1 use. Also, I have more experience (recently, at least) with grammar, reading, and writing classes, and less with speaking classes--I think that in a speaking class, or in an integrated skills class, I would be more likely to ask the students to switch to English.

[PanamaTeacher]

Denise: I'm confused--Did you learn English as a second language?

I agree that if it is a conversation class keep it english. But sometimes trying to figure things out in L1 leads to wrong conclusions. Then kids learn to think in L1 first and translate to English. They have to learn to think in English (in my opinion). Also, what about that left brain, right brain thing; doesn't it worry you.

[naturegirl321]

ESLGUru,

"On another thread she claims that ESL teachers need nothing more than a high school diploma, no training, no understanding of pedogogy or methodology. "

No, I've never said that. I actually ENCOURAGED other people to GET a TEFL Cert, because I think that it's worth the money. AND, I've told others to continue their education.

Why are you angry at the world?

[PanamaTeacher]

Hey nature if he's wrong don't get defensive. I think this is a great topic. I personally didn't think there would be such a diversity of views. It makes one have to re-think why or how one does things. I always felt guilty about using L1, now I'll feel better. Thanks for putting forth the issue.

[naturegirl321]

Richard Ame,
What's a NE?

[Marcoregano]

Certainly in Asia it is rarely the case that the teacher (I assume we're talking about native English teachers) CAN speak the students' L1, hence using it is quite impossible! If I could speak Cantonese I'd probably use it occasionally for establishing rapport, having a joke etc. I often wish I could speak L1 so as to know what students are saying...especially when I think they might be talking about yours truly.

[denise]

Panamateacher:

Nope--English is my L1.

I didn't mean to suggest at all that I support students relying on their L1, thinking in their L1 and then translating, etc. I know that direct translation is a very flawed way to acquire (oooops, now the whole learning vs. acquiring mess...) a second language. I do believe, however, that they should be allowed to use the L1 when it's a choice between using the L1 to understand and not understanding.

[johnslat]

Again, I can speak only from my personal experience. And that has, without exception, been that teachers ( either native speakers of English or native speakers of Arabic who teach English here ) who use Arabic in the classroom soon overuse it. There may well be those who can control the use of the L1 in class, but I suspect they are thin on the ground. It's a slippery slope.
Regards,
John

[PanamaTeacher]

Denise--Johnslat says it well, it is hard to control. Once you start using, you soon start abusing. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

If they don't understand your explanation, change the explanation, not the language. the goal is to make them try to understand. Or draw a picture.

I know it's possible because I had classes where L1 was not an option for me and we got along just fine. I think that L1 works best if you are in a big rush and don't have time to re-explain.

But don't get me wrong, I use L1 all the time, so I am as guilty as anyone.

[Mike_2003]

I believe that good knowledge of the students' L1 is very helpful. When I prepare a lesson I can instantly identify which grammatical points they will struggle with, and therefore may need a little more work, and which should be understood quite easily. It also helps to know where students may encounter false friends in the vocabulary. Also it is important for my life outside lessons - not all my friends know English well and it's good to be able to deal with the red tape without relying on other people all the time.

However, I refrain from using their L1 in class. This is the hardest part for many people because it is as natural for a teacher to want to try and win admiration and respect by showing off your newly acquired language skills as it is for the students. I'm quite happy to hide this skill from them and most of them have no idea that I know anything more than a few basic greetings and expressions. Sometimes they try to explain the meaning of a proverb or joke to me and it is extremely tempting, being only human, to boastfully prove that I can work it out on my own. But I bite my tongue and feign ignorance because I want them to explain it in English. It's a temptation, but not an insurmountable one.

Mike

[PanamaTeacher]

That's right L1 is a secret weapon. It does help you see why people make mistakes that otherwise seem ridiculous. Mike--If you teach vocabulary do you give a translation or try to do that English only. I translate if the definition is just as hard as the word itself.

[tjpnz2000]

In a perfect world you would never use the students L1. Hands up anybody who lives in a perfect world.

If a students says `What does `X` mean?` and I know the word in Japanese then sure I say `it means 'Y'.

However, rule number one of teaching young children, anybody under about 7, is NEVER use the L1. At this age a child can't grasp the fact that you may know the odd word but that you don't know the language. Everybody they have ever met in thier short lives speaks the L1 perfectly and they see no reason why you should be any different. Yeah, I know adults from all countries fall into this trap too.

Naturegirl,
I think ESL guru is pushing the bounds of acceptable behaviour. My advice is ignor him, he is only doing it for the attention (wasn't my mother just full of good advice?).

T

[Mike_2003]

Hi Panama Teacher,

I always try to explain in English. Firstly because the differences between Turkish and English are sufficiently great that sometimes a direct translation just doesn't work, and secondly because I feel that a longer explanation in English, backed up with examples in context, will stick in the student's mind for a longer period of time.

Sometimes I'll have a glance at the student's notes and see what they've written in their L1 and being able to understand what they written is useful when trying to establish whether they have fully grasped the concept I've been explaining.

I suppose it's more important in the beginning. Once you've established English as the primary language of communication in the classroom, the occassional dumbed-down use of the L1 doesn't do as much damage, especially if you let the students feel that their command of English if far better than your command of their language. I've found this can sometimes even act as an encouragement. They feel they are helping you out by using English and this takes a little pressure and focus off them. Sometimes works, but it depends on each situation.

Mike

[PanamaTeacher]

thanks mike. How did you learn the turkish language? is it hard?

[Mike_2003]

Mainly just picked it up as I went along. I got a book at first to get to grips with the basic grammar and after that just practised where I could. My spoken Turkish isn't wonderful but I can read a novel or a newspaper and watch the TV.

The main problem I had was finding people to talk to in Turkish. Obviously I didn't want to let my students know I was learning, although some of them did offer to teach me, and there is a limit to the language you can use when you are out shopping. My wife is Turkish but she lived in England for years and so English because our first language at home. Even though I ask her to talk to me in Turkish sometimes she just can't break the habit of communicating in English. The same goes for many of my friends, they are accustomed to using English with me from the days when I didn't understand a word of it. Even when you meet nw people they often prefer to try out their English with you which means I have some relationships where I talk in Turkish and they reply in English!

Turkish is a very different language to English in terms of structure but it has a lot of things going for it: the pron is phonetic, the rules are consistent, not many tenses, and the best part is that most words are build using suffixes meaning that if you encounter a new word you can have a pretty good guess at its meaning. Also, the Turks dont use as much slang in their daily language as we do in English, so they often will actually say what you learn in the books!

Mike