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Question regarding Foreign Expert Certificate application

 
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tw



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:12 am    Post subject: Question regarding Foreign Expert Certificate application Reply with quote

Will being rejected for work permit (Foreign Expert Certificate) affect one's future applications for work permit in the same city, the same province, or for that matter in China? If a person was rejected (not due to health reasons), does that mean that rejection will be recorded country-wide and thus will mean the foreigner can never teach in China again?
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tony lee



Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole country is becoming more wired by the month. Immigration department can now keep track of incoming and outgoings country wide and there is likely to be a general tightening up on those who teach on the incorrect visas.

The reason for your rejection is obviously the key. If you were rejected because of age then time will either fix the problem or make it worse.

If it was because of lack of qualifications then the solution is different.

Your question can't really be answered without very specific information on the reasons for the rejection.
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Alex_P



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 174
Location: Hangzhou. Zheijiang, China

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Question regarding Foreign Expert Certificate applicatio Reply with quote

tw wrote:
Will being rejected for work permit (Foreign Expert Certificate) affect one's future applications for work permit in the same city, the same province, or for that matter in China? If a person was rejected (not due to health reasons), does that mean that rejection will be recorded country-wide and thus will mean the foreigner can never teach in China again?


Dear TW,

The other post has accurately answered your question except...

for that the fact that China still remains case-by-case. If you are rejected in Guangzhou, yes, good luck, you will have a rought time obtaining a FEC there ...unless you find an employer who sufficiently likes you...and who has "sufficient guanxi" to make things happen in China. Wired or not, China is still all about guanxi.

And this an experience that I have had repeatedly and repeatedly and seen in countless cases.

You all need to rapidly learn which are the more malleable provinces, i.e., more willing to give a break. Yes -- they still do exist. Obviously, Guangdong is not one of them.

And the rejection of the FEC application also demands as much on the manner and the form in which your prospective employer made the request.

Trust me, please, I can't set it out in full on this board, but good personal relations are invaluable in modern China. It's something I appreciate about the country. The American bureacracy, for example, is much colder and likes to behave much more omnipotently.

A well-placed telephone call in China never hurts. And that is how the country has traditionally functioned, even before telephones>
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Volodiya



Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TW, you're in a better position to judge regarding the reasons for your not getting the FEC this time, but the laws of China do allow discretion in the issuance of the FEC.

For example, if the need for foreign teachers is great at a given school, or locale, and the supply very limited or seemingly non-existent, your employer would have a better case arguing that an FEC should be issued to you, if your qualifications are less than what is considered optimal.

Try somewhere else and you may get a different result. Maybe consider jobs you have reason to believe will not be so competitive, perhaps a smaller city. (If you're using a recruiter, you might try asking him if he has some ideas along these lines.)

(This is what Alex_P was saying, I think: I'm just putting a second to it, from another, slightly different perspective.)
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Alex_P



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 174
Location: Hangzhou. Zheijiang, China

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volodiya wrote:
TW, you're in a better position to judge regarding the reasons for your not getting the FEC this time, but the laws of China do allow discretion in the issuance of the FEC.

For example, if the need for foreign teachers is great at a given school, or locale, and the supply very limited or seemingly non-existent, your employer would have a better case arguing that an FEC should be issued to you, if your qualifications are less than what is considered optimal.

Try somewhere else and you may get a different result. Maybe consider jobs you have reason to believe will not be so competitive, perhaps a smaller city. (If you're using a recruiter, you might try asking him if he has some ideas along these lines.)

(This is what Alex_P was saying, I think: I'm just putting a second to it, from another, slightly different perspective.)


Я благодарю вас. Вы пишете наилучшим образом.
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Zero Hero



Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 944

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex_P wrote:
[Я благодарю вас. Вы пишете наилучшим образом.

То будет спорн!
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tw



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volodiya wrote:
For example, if the need for foreign teachers is great at a given school, or locale, and the supply very limited or seemingly non-existent, your employer would have a better case arguing that an FEC should be issued to you, if your qualifications are less than what is considered optimal.

Try somewhere else and you may get a different result. Maybe consider jobs you have reason to believe will not be so competitive, perhaps a smaller city. (If you're using a recruiter, you might try asking him if he has some ideas along these lines.)


Thanks Alex and Volodiya. I have been told by a local recruiter the same thing too. Seems because so many people want to go to big cities like Beijing, Shanghai, Dalian, Qingdao, etc they have to raise the bar on minimum requirements. So I've been applying for jobs in smaller and more remote areas and have had a bit better luck in getting replies.
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tw



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Question regarding Foreign Expert Certificate applicatio Reply with quote

Alex_P wrote:
And the rejection of the FEC application also demands as much on the manner and the form in which your prospective employer made the request.

Trust me, please, I can't set it out in full on this board, but good personal relations are invaluable in modern China. It's something I appreciate about the country. The American bureacracy, for example, is much colder and likes to behave much more omnipotently.

A well-placed telephone call in China never hurts. And that is how the country has traditionally functioned, even before telephones>


Yeah, I think the university that I ALMOST went to teach at didn't try hard enough. I am very sure if they had really wanted me teaching there they would have try a little bit of persuation or maybe had someone higher up the ladder making a phone call.

Regardless, I have moved on. It was a bitter pill to swallow and a hard lesson learned.
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