Job Discussion Forums

gulam2 · Joined: 19 May 2005 Posts: 137

Noelle

Its actually a bit foolish to reply to criticism it just draws more.
Noelle and another DOS (other threads) help the causes of people such as I. Most schools know better than to compete against critics such as I.
So lets thank Noelle - She is doing a lot to damage EF.
Few people beleive defensive arguements - thats why lawyers attack the victims (Jackson, OJ etc) and the witnesses rather than trying to defend the guilty. Few will beleive Noelle about EF - while many will beleive me
when I say EF is one BAD company. Dont work for them.
Further information available at [email protected]

matador · Joined: 07 Mar 2003 Posts: 281

I worked for EF as Senior Teacher in their Pudong, Shanghai Branch. I only taught business English when I was there and was very impressed by the professional approach of the organization. My DoS was excellent and really did a good job. The business English teaching side of EF is a little different from the standard EF so I can only comment on that. I left China to come over to Japan where I can earn better money. But I look back on my EF days with good memories and would certainly work for them again!

Is the organization perfect...? ...no! But where is...?

If you don't like it in China, jump on a plane and connect with a better paying job in Japan! Its only a 2 hour flight. Life is toooooo short to let bitterness eat you up..

englishgibson · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 4345

Sorry, I did some search on your postings, because your name looked familiar.
We�ve participated in a discussion together once before and your have said, quote �I was teaching Business English for English First CLT (Corporate Language Training) in Shanghai. This is the branch of EF that only teaches English to businesses and is seperate from the standard English schools. I was the senior teacher! Unquote�. Here below you can double check that.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=23725

So Matador, the CLT in Shanghai is under the EF English First management and belongs to that franchiser, and then how is the teaching different at the CLT corporate in Pudong? Haven�t you taught the same Business Course Books such a Business Basics, Market Leaders etc as other EF centers in China? In any case many EF centers around China have some specially designed business courses aside that book-courses, don�t they? How is the EF CLT�s methodology different from the EF English First?

The EF Corporate Language Training (where you were) is supposed to have a close cooperation with the EF centers in China with regards to their corporate language training, is it not? Ohh, maybe the EF centers have to sign in for the help from the CLT in Pudong, don�t they? There have been very few EF centers cooperating with CLT for some reason. Do you know why?

Matador, �IF YOU DON�T LIKE CHINA, JUMP ON A PLANE AND CONNECT WITH A BETTER PAYING JOB IN JAPAN� statement is fascinating. That�s exactly what you did, didn�t you?
Well, some of us have been here for longer than you had. Some of us have attachments to China after such time as for example WIFES, GIRLFRIENDS, FRIENDS, REAL ESTATE AND SO ON AND ON. I wish I could �JUMP AROUND� like you do.

Please remember that some of us are not in Asia for �JUST THE MONEY� as you might have indicated that you might be.

Last time you might have been busy, so you did not answer me (Were you on a PLANE?). I really hope to read your reply on this thread this time.

Cheers and beers

brsmith15 · Joined: 12 May 2003 Posts: 1142 Location: New Hampshire USA

A few years ago, at a school fair in Hanzhou, I had the ill luck to have the booth next to the DOS for EF in that city. In my entire existence I don't think I've ever met such a foolish, inept, ego-centric, babbling dolt. As Churchill once said about a rival, "He's the kind of man that gives sodomy a bad name."

I wouldn't have hired the guy to clean toilets. I think he escaped from the George W Bush Institute for the Criminally Insane. I could just imagine what life must be like at his school.

Of all the McSchools run only for profit like Delter, Informatics, Wall Street, they sit somewhere under the bottom of the barrel.

Keath · Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:07 pm Post subject:

When did you leave the Huizhou camp? Where you there when Amber Carlson arrived? I forget the directors name, but I have spoken with Lucy Li, she is a shark and one of the most vile and cheating people I have ever met in China.

Noelle · Joined: 26 Mar 2005 Posts: 361 Location: USA

EnglishG and Gulam2:

I am neither damaging nor promoting anything. I just happened to like MY school and don't mind saying so. I actually valued my experience with this organization and calling it a "farce" is an insult to teachers who do take their positions in EF seriously.

Whatever your personal issues with your own former jobs, why go on and on about it as you do?

By all means, warn people about schools that have been disreputable but must you continually try to discredit someone who actually had something good to say?

Good on you, matador.

Zero Hero · Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 944

joe greene · Joined: 21 Mar 2004 Posts: 200

D.O.S. · Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:46 pm Post subject:

There are shallow people.

If these people insist on giving up their valuable time (life is short) earning a minor wage in a corrupt and rotten organisation, then I figure that is their right.

However, they certainly will not gain my respect and I sincerely hope they will NOT put in on their c.v. or that mightly document will be binned within seconds!!

Zero Hero · Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 944

englishgibson · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 4345

Noelle, since you �opened the door� for a further discussion on the English First organization with your �If the EF were so bad, why would they be so large and successful and continued to grow�, I replied. I thought that I gave you a reasonable explanation to why the EF English First centers thrived in China with regards to OPENING THEIR CENTERS (as you say are large and successful). I did not try to �discredit� you. I tried to reply.

Although I have tried to approach your naivety and inexperience in a nice way in my previous posts, you have not been as nice on the contrary rather confrontational.

So due to your comment below

Zero Hero · Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 944

Easy there! Calm down, 'EnglishGibson'! That is not how I interpreted 'Noelle'. She is merely relating her experiences with EF, as you are yours. Hers simply happen to be more positive than yours, and I believe the forum only benefits from input from both of you.

As it happens, though, I do think 'Noelle' has a point. As I said elsewhere a while ago, I think you should put this unfortunate experience behind you and move on with your life. At the moment, although you are no longer silly enough to work for them, they still, in a very real sense, control you.

Put it to the wind.

To help you get it all off your chest why don't you learn some basic HTML (if you don't know it already) and write yourself up a little website outlining or examining in depth (the choice is yours as they say) your experiences with EF? There are numerous such sites appearing, and although many are simply rants, many others tell fascinating stories. One particular favourite of mine is the following, started by a woman to draw attention to her ordeal as a foreign kindergarten teacher in Korea:

http://www.prisonerofwonderland.com/

I would to see some of your stories up on a website!

englishgibson · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 4345

Zero Hero · Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 944

Yes, and keep an eye out for those "innosent soles"!

Kent F. Kruhoeffer · Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Posts: 2129 Location: 中国

Good Evening Friends:

Ni hao ma?

Let's stay on-topic please, and try to avoid the

and personal insults.

Otherwise I will call my friend Arnold, and he will terminate this thread.