Job Discussion Forums

[thes80]

Today I wasted a huge amount of time going to the Migracion office in Puebla. I have heard that these people are extremely uselss and inefficient, but nothing could have prepared me for the estupidez I encountered.

I went there to ask about cancelling my current FM3 and/or applying for a change of employer. The "boy" there told me I didn�t have to notify the INM when my job ended (not true) and then later he changed his mind and said could if I wanted to. Then he said I could stay in Mexico with my cancelled FM3 until October, but all the other information I have says I have 30 days to get out or find a new job. Is any of this true?

Then I asked him if there was a way I can pay the change of employer fee (about 1600 pesos) but also get the FM3 extended for 12 more months instead of just to October, in which case I will have to pay the fee again. First he said it was possible to extend it for 12 months. Then he gave me a really stupid look (not difficult for him to do) and told me it is also possible that the INM will just revoke my FM3 all together and send me away.

Has anyone ever had an FM3 renewal denied?

I also spent a large amount of time searching in the INS website, which was a little more helpful than the guy at the office, but not much.

How does anyone get correct information in this country?

Thanks - Theo

[moonraven]

1. You don't cancel an FM-3--that has to be done by the Immigration office. You do change employers, for which the cost is identical to that of renewing your FM-3. If the renewal date is fairly close to the date for change of employer, you can do both at the same time. And pay for both. If not, you must turn in the FM-3 for renewal 30 days before the expiration date along with documentation proving that you are still at the same workplace.

2. You do NOT tell them when you leave a job--not unless you want all the little rules applied to you. When you have another offer and its attendant paperwork in hand, you write a letter indicating that you no longer provide services to the previous employer, that your "relaci�n laboral" terminated quite recently, and your request a change of employer--and a change of address, if applicable at the Immigration office. Do NOT ever give unsolicited information.

3. I know of no one who was denied an FM-3 renewal if he/she was working for the same employer and had all the documents in order.

4. There is no such thing as "correct information". This is Mexico! There is what is known as the "appearance of compliance".

From the tone of your posting, and your references to "boy", etc., I have a strong feeling that you did the Gringo Dance there. In which case, you got what you deserved.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

Dealing with the folks who work in our local immigration office can be frustrating. They are very nice people, but in all honesty I must say that many of them aren't the brightest crayons in the box. Many of them are employed there via the "Mexican way," i.e., through connections rather than for their ability/training/experience to do their jobs well. Also, there are students "working" in the immigration office doing their servicio social, which means they're pretty clueless as to how things should operate in that office.

We as teachers have an advantage here, I think. We're in a "people profession," so we're used to communicating and interacting with lots of people in a public sort of way. The experience of living and working in Mexico has given many of us a variety of opportunities to learn how to deal with professionals and not-so-professionals in government offices, clinics, banks, department stores, law enforcement, school administration, public transportation, public services, Telmex (Grrrr!!!!) and more.

An important thing to remember in most of these situations: We need a lot more from them than they need from us. I can't think of many situations where doing the Gringo Dance -- I like that term, moonraven -- helps us get anything but negative results. Foot-stomping, arm-waving, and voice-raising are best reserved for places like dance floors in discos and nightclubs.

[thes80]

Yes Ben, perhaps the boy in the INM office was a student from someplace. He certainly didn�t look old enough to be working there, and he didn�t have accurate information on anything. He would tell me 2 or 3 different answers for one questions...which is it? Nor was he wearing a uniform, which leads me to believe, again, that he doesn�t work there.

As for the Gringo Dance, I have no idea what that is. Moonraven, if you are refering to yelling and screaming and acting like an ass, I have only one comment for you. Unlike you, I am a professional. I do not engage in such inmaturity and unnecessary behavior, whatever the situation may be. I have read your unsolicited nastiness and racial put-downs on this forum for the last several months, and with the exception of this one reply, I will not waste my time with you any more. Please don�t bother replying to any of my postings in the future. Your "advice" is unnecessary.

If anyone else has any comments for my questions, I welcome them.

Theo

[thes80]

Yes Ben, perhaps the boy in the INM office was a student from someplace. He certainly didn�t look old enough to be working there, and he didn�t have accurate information on anything. He would tell me 2 or 3 different answers for one questions...which is it? Nor was he wearing a uniform, which leads me to believe, again, that he doesn�t work there.

As for the Gringo Dance, I have no idea what that is. Moonraven, if you are refering to yelling and screaming and acting like an ass, I have only one comment for you. Unlike you, I am a professional. I do not engage in such inmaturity and unnecessary behavior, whatever the situation may be. I have read your unsolicited nastiness and racial put-downs on this forum for the last several months, and with the exception of this one reply, I will not waste my time with you any more. Please don�t bother replying to any of my postings in the future. Your "advice" is unnecessary.

If anyone else has any comments for my questions, I welcome them.

Theo

[moonraven]

Your reply proves that I was right. You just did a verbal version of the Gringo Dance in your post: insults and name-calling and above all, added THE PROJECTION POLKA to your repertoire.

Grow up. A mature person, when he strikes out trying to get what he wants, does not ask for advice to other people who have also struck out. He/she asks someone with a track record of being successful.

I have had excellent relationships with 7 different Immigration offices here in Mexico. In the Toluca office even they offered me a job, thinking that I could talk sense into the folks who did the Gringo Dance. I told them it wasn't worth it for any of us to try, as some folks only learn the hard way.

Looks like in Puebla they offered you the door.

[rafomania]

Moonraven attracts trouble like poo attracts flies.

[moonraven]

I NEVER attract trouble.

But, unfortunately I do seem to attract trolls.

Trolls are not trouble--they are simply the price one pays for speaking the truth instead of dishing out a load of crap on an internet forum--like the fleas dogs who roam free collect.

[still trying]

Back to the point at hand..As my FM3 was about to expire and I also had left the job registered on the one I had, I applied in May at the office in Villahermosa.for a change of employer and also an extention They have changed staff there and the people who attend the reception area here are now much more courteous and helpful than the people who were there last year. There is always at least a smile and the service is much faster than it used to be. I am not talking about the processing of my paperwork, which I am still waiting on and they are very appologetic for, but at least the visit is a pleasant one. I think that they have either promoted, gotten rid of the old guard ( who most times looked at you as though you were just a bother) or given out some training. Either way it is a pleasant change. By the way, I am now applying as self-employed as I have my Tax registration and am legal to give out "Recibos de Honorarios". I read a couple of weeks ago that at least in Mexico City, some companies were not accepting "Recibos de Honorarios". If that pattern arrives down here, any ideas what a self-employed person who has other people also counting on them can do without forming a company for which you need at least three "partners"?

[Flo]

If you look at page 2 of your FM3, number 5 says roughly that if you are no longer working (or doing whatever it was you were supposed to be doing with your FM3) you have 30 days to leave the country. Whether this is enforced or not is another story. If the INM in Puebla is telling you differently, they must not know the legal procedures of the institution they work for. Makes you wonder why they are getting paid in the first place...

[berlitzoax]

I don't think the staff at the INM offices wear uniforms so I wouldn't take that as being an indication of whether he really works there.

Is your Spanish perfect? Because if not, maybe his "stupid looks" were actually due to not completely understanding what you were talking about.

[moonraven]

Of course his Spanish isn't perfect! I TEACH Spanish, have written 5 books in Spanish, produce theater in Spanish, etc.--and MINE isn't perfect.

He roams the world expecting everyone to speak English to him, and calling them "boy" and "stupid" when they don't. Unfortunately, he is not the only one with that obnoxious attitude--which is one of the reasons the INM folks do NOT like dealing with "gringos".

[thes80]

Who said I was gringo? Has anyone on here walked a day in my shoes? I believe only lonely insecure people make assumptions and try to talk for people they have never met.

And yes, the people in the INM office do wear uniforms with little INM badges on the front of the shirts.

Still trying - Thanks for the reply. That is what I was trying to find out...if I could renew and change the employer at the same time. However, the person I talked to didn�t know the answer and simple told me "it depends". Maybe you could send some of the�pleasant people" to the Puebla office from Villahermosa.

[moonraven]

I don't care what your nationality is: You did the Gringo Dance for me--and that is all that matters. (BTW, most foreigners in Mexico are called Gringos--just the way it is.)

Where is it written that ANYONE has to walk a day-or even a minute--in your dancin' shoes, anyway?

Maybe the INM agent would have appreciated your asking him to do that....then again, maybe not.

[delacosta]

just one moment MR, canadians aren't called gringos-well perhaps by mistake but once informed of the fact that one isn't from the good ol' us of
eh, apologies are usually offered. i'm not nationalistic in any sense of the word, in fact i'm canadian by pure happenstance, but i'm really glad not to be associated with you know where. and a very large number of usa'ns that i've met down here do seem to feel some sense of shame as to their origins, and openly express it-the more informed/ arware ones that is...