Job Discussion Forums

[Blue_on_Blue]

I have been living and working in Shenzhen, China for about 9 months. The company I work(ed) for - Aaron Education Services, Ltd - arranges teaching positions for approx. 8 - 12 teachers and supplies apartments, transportation, etc in addition to our salaries.

About 3 weeks ago, in the middle of the night, the Chinese police came to my door and took myself and the 6 other teachers currently employed by this company to the police station and charged us with working illegally.
Apparantly the company did not have a license to hire teachers and did not apply for our residence cards (even though all of us filled out our forms and supplied pictures for that purpose). Additionally, we were told by the company that working at the schools with F visas was ok - the police say it's not ok.

A lot of complicated stuff has happened since then, but my question relates to what is currently happening. I worked all of May except for the last two days (the days I was at the police station) but my employer (Manager Zhang, owner and operator of Aaron Education Services, Ltd) refuses to give me my pay for May. He says he spent a lot of money on fines, etc and that he used my pay to cover it.

At the time all of this happened the police cancelled all of our current multiple entry F visas and gave us 30 day L visas. My employer said that within the 30 days he would get us Z visas. The 30 days is up this week and so far we haven't even begun the Z visa process. When I asked him about it a few days ago he said not only will he not get us the Z visas, but that he will not pay to get a new F or L visa when our visas expire in a few days.

And, about 5 minutes ago I (along with the other teachers that are still here) received an email from Manager Zhang saying that we have to vacate our apartments.

Since he won't pay me I can't afford to purchase my visa myself, since he hasn't gotten me the Z visa I can't work to make any money. Obviously, if I don't have 1000 RMB for a new visa I don't have 1100 US for a plane ticket home back to the US, nor do I have money to go rent and furnish an apartment of my own. This means that as of next week
I will not be able to stay in China and I will not be able to leave China!

I have a booklet from the police entitled "Law of the people's republic of china on entry and exit of aliens". In the booklet it would appear that since my employer hired us under false pretenses and was found
guilty by the police that he is responsible for paying me any salary he owed me (month of May), and money either to get the appropriate visa and residence card or money to get back to the USA.

Does anyoe know anything about any of this? Am I reading the law correctly, and if so, how on earth am I supposed to force this man to give me the money he owes me?

Does anyone have any suggestion on what I can do??

I would appreciate any information at all.

Thank you!

[tw]

Sounds like you are now as good to your FORMER employer as an old ugly obese hooker is to a pimp. At least the PSB gave you that booklet. I guess you can press charges, or you can try to find a lawyer. Otherwise, ask your family to wire you some money. Do you have at least some money saved up so you can go to Korea or Hong Kong?

[Volodiya]

Others may have some advice about how to extricate yourself from this situation which will be of direct benefit to you: I'm limiting my comments to the legal issues re: visas, and working in China.

You stated you had been living and working in Shenzhen, China for about 9 months, on an F (business) visa. Under the most favorable reading of Chinese Law, as contained in the SAFEA guidelines,
http://www.china-tesol.com/SAFEA_Guide/safea_guide.html/
you may only work on a contract of less than six months on an F visa; a contract for six months or more, would require a Z visa.

[This exact question is under discussion and investigation on another thread: that's why I wrote, "Under the most favorable reading of Chinese Law...." This question is still open, until everyone has had a chance to respond on the other thread, producing whatever legal authority they can regarding, "working on an F visa".]

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=26417

Second, and fundamental to your situation, is the fact that your employer was not licensed to employ foreign experts- whether on a short-term contract (less than six months), or on a long-term contract (six months, and more).

[Blue_on_Blue]

My family doesn't have any money they can wire me. I have a few kids I tutor privately and that gives me a some money, but now that I have to get out of my apartment I'm really screwed. Plus, my 10 year old daughter is here with me and I can't just keep moving her around from country to country. I would like to stay in Shenzhen and I think eventually I'll be able to find a legitimate job, but I need the money owed to me in order to do that. Plus, I admit, I hate the idea of my employer causing all these problems in my life and him getting away with it. Not only that but I know for a fact he has new foreign teachers coming in for next term and they know nothing about any of this. They think everything is legit and it is not fair of him to bring them here in the middle of all this mess.

[Roger]

A lawyer?
Forget it! You can't pay a lawyer, and lawyers these days are PICKY because they don't want to complicate their jobs. Their earnings come easy without them bending over double to accommodate foreigners!

In your case, only your consulate can be of some assistance. The nearest one for you is not the Hong Kong one but the one in Guangzhou.

Of course, your employer is RESPONSIBLE for you but can you prove that to anyone? I guess not! He has paid the fine(s) - whose? His, yours, everybodyy's?), and he is now rid of you because you have no legal status with him any more. To prove that he acted illegally, duplicitously or criminally requires the help of a lawyer... ...and before such a case goes to court you would have to convince the authorities. Not very good-looking avenues.

I have been telling folks here to take care not to fall on hard times while doing their stint in China... ...come with an adequate amount of cash to tide you over any eventuality... ...and make sure you get hired legally. Also, non-Chinese are not supposed to rent lodgings on their own unless they have PSB approval for that!

Sorry about you, but you have to get out of mainland CHina (to Hong Kong, perhaps) and see what you can do from there! You won't get a visa extension in Shenzhen nor anywhere else!

[Roger]

One afterthought:

Since you were working in SZ illegally (working on a businessman's visa) you will probably never be okayed by the Shenzhen PSB for any job in that municipality!

[lowes13]

Sorry to hear about your situation and that of your colleagues; other than that I can only echo the thoughts and advice given by Roger.

Everyone out there who reads this forum should really take note of these events and remember that everyone needs to take responsibility for themselves. The stories are there to be read about unscrupulous employers who hire people illegally and once a person is hired that person will be on very shaky ground if the sh*t hits the fan. It�s very easy to find, on this forum, information as to what constitutes being legally employed in this country but obviously people tend to ignore it.
It is the responsibility of each and every one of us to make sure we�re legally employed here! If your employer is in anyway crooked he/she will try to save money on getting you the necessary documents so if you don�t receive your residence permit and experts certificate after joining your new employer you need to pursue the matter. Don�t take on the attitude that it won�t happen to me; be responsible for yourself and make sure you�re legal.

The F visa is for business purposes only; not for taking up full time employment. Those of you that doubt this statement should read again what�s happening to the poster. As a business visitor to any country you are allowed to remain for a certain period of time in order to conduct business. The business could be acting as a representative of your employer selling your wares to various contacts in the country being visited, acting as a consultant/advisor, giving lectures at various educational establishments or helping to set-up an overseas branch of your company. The thing to bear in mind is that the work you carry out will be on a temporary basis and you will not be compensated for it directly; your company will receive payment or they will be paying you from you own country. You should have the Z visa in order to take up full time employment in China if you arrive without one then make sure you receive the FEC and RPF within c.1 month after you arrive if you don�t then you have to take responsibility for any immigration related problems that come your way.

Cheers

[cujobytes]

And didn't you wonder, after 9 months, where was the Z visa you had applied for?
Maybe, if you're lucky you can get a new job in the next couple of days. Start pounding the pavement immediately. And I can't believe you got a child messed up in this. What's her visa status?

[kev7161]

I probably can't offer any helpful advice - - there are others on this board who have MUCH more experience and knowledge about these things. But I have to say, this is a good lesson from which all of us can learn.

1. If you don't have or don't see your Foreign Experts Certificate within the first MONTH of your employment, then you should be worried. Knock on doors and make some calls. Find out what's going on. If your FAO can't or won't give you the booklet, my advice is to go elsewhere. Same goes with your Residence Permit.

2. Everyone should be aware of limitations with F, L, and Z visas by now. There is plenty of information here at Dave's along with other sites. The internet can be a powerful tool - - don't you think it's a good idea to use it BEFORE you come to a foreign country (and for the OP - - with a daughter?)??

3. In Shenzen, some at the PSB should speak English - - have you and the other 6 teachers banded together and inquired of them and told them of your problems? I realize that your questions/complaints may fall on deaf ears, but have you even given that a try? It sounds like the EMPLOYER is truly at fault - - but did NONE of the seven teachers know of visa and employment laws in China? Or, let's be honest now, did some of you know, but didn't worry about it until that late-night knock on the door?

Okay, enough brow-beating. I guess it stands to repeat: Get your Z visa, get your Z visa, get your Z visa. Yes, yes, yes - - you may be able to work 6 months on a business visa (F), but if your contract is for 6 months or more, why even mess with that? If you KNOW you will be here for, say, 3 months . . . fine. But the OP has been here for NINE MONTHS - - I say he and the other teachers bear a little of the responsibility.

Get your Residence Permit and your Foreign Experts Certificate. If your FAO says "not necessary", odds are they are not being truthful with you or something shady is going on. The most important thing here (IMO) - - C Y A!!

[Blue_on_Blue]

What is your problem Cujo? I came over here to start a new life for myself and my child. Obviously I was naive to trust this employer, but you can go to hell if you think I would purposely put my child in danger of any kind. I posted this message for help because I am at a loss as to what to do. I did not post this message to get ignorant comments and condemnations from people like you.

[tw]

[Blue_on_Blue]

According to the PSB, all foreigners staying in China more than 24 hours need a residence permit. Hotels provide tourists with a temp permit, anyone not staying in a hotel has to get the permit themselves.

[Midlothian Mapleheart]

Edited to remove offensive content.

Middy

[Blue_on_Blue]

I appreciate everyones comments and suggestions. I agree with those of you who advise foreigners coming to China to make sure they understand the legalities before they take on a position. Believe me, after the past few weeks and know most of the laws backwards and forwards now and I am trying to get out of my current situation so I can move on and do things the right way. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed from here?

[cujobytes]