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Alex_P
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 174
Location: Hangzhou. Zheijiang, China
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 Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:54 pm Post subject: The Place Name Commission of China |
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There have been questions on postings in this particular section of the Board as to the correct manner in which to render Chinese place names, i.e., Guang Dong vs. Guandong, etc, etc. when written in English.
I would like to draw the kind attention of all readers of this board to the official determination of topographical listings in China as determined by the Place Name Commission of the People's Republic (Zhongguo Diming Weiyuanhui, Zhonghua Renmin Gongheguo Diminglu) (Register of Place Names in the PRC). This Government authority stipulates that when a place name has been officialy given an English rendering by the Chinese Government that such place name is the one and only correct name. Thus, Sichuan is indeed rendered in English as Sichuan and not as SiChuan. Guangzhou is officially rendered in English as Guangzhou and not as Guang Zhou, Hangzhou as Hangzhou and not as Hang Zhou, ad infinitim. Thus, sa the Place Name Commission noted in its 1994 Official Topographical Listing, arbitrary renderings based upon the Pin Yin are not deemed the correct legal name in English, unless the Commission has not fixed an English rendering of the place name.
I draw attention of the readers to TW's postings in particular where she wrote Guangzhou and was criticized by the more senior members of the Forum for not having written Guang Zhou, or variations thereof. Per the Chinese Government, in all instances, Guangzhou is indeed the normative. |
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go_ABs
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 507
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:09 pm Post subject: really? |
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Is tw a woman?
Huh. You learn something new everyday.
Way to go with your research, Alex. Busy day? Nah, just kidding, this is good to know.
Is there a website for the PNC of the PRC? |
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Zero Hero
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 944
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: The Place Name Commission of China |
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| Alex_P wrote: |
| This Government authority stipulates that when a place name has been officialy given an English rendering by the Chinese Government that such place name is the one and only correct name. |
Government authorities do not control language. A language is as its native speakers use it.
May I draw your kind attention to the fact that government authorities have also officially (note spelling) decreed that nothing happened in Beijing in 1989 and that is the only correct account of this non-event. |
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Alex_P
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 174
Location: Hangzhou. Zheijiang, China
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: The Place Name Commission of China |
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| Zero Hero wrote: |
| Alex_P wrote: |
| This Government authority stipulates that when a place name has been officialy given an English rendering by the Chinese Government that such place name is the one and only correct name. |
Government authorities do not control language. A language is as its native speakers use it.
May I draw your kind attention to the fact that government authorities have also officially (note spelling) decreed that nothing happened in Beijing in 1989 and that is the only correct account of this non-event. |
Most major countries have Topographical Commission that determine topographical appelations. Actually, they do control the language in terms of determining what is a recognized place name usage, both in the native language and in the various translation thereof. Canada, for example, has such a Commission as does the United States, Japan, Russia and other countries. Countries extend as a rule the courtesy to each of other of recognizing the other country's place names -- i.e., Peking became Beijing more or less universally when the Place Name Commission standardized its usage.
Thus, while members of the Board may expound upon what they view as correct and as to how it should be written, there is a competent authority in place. Additionally, the United Nations has a World Name Place Commission which synchronizes all of the local ones.
As for your political comments, Zero Hero, we are discussing place names here and not political events. |
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Zero Hero
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 944
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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There was no discussion. You were emphasising the role that a government authority putatively plays in establishing orthographic conventions and ignoring the clear variation in the pool of data. If you like I can supply you with the accepted Chinese-language corpora to search through if you have concordancing software.
The English also officially christened the city of Londonderry, though not everyone in that city accepted the name or its spelling. |
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Alex_P
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 174
Location: Hangzhou. Zheijiang, China
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject: Please Quote Accurately |
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| Zero Hero wrote: |
There was no discussion. You were emphasising the role that a government authority putatively plays in establishing orthographic conventions and ignoring the clear variation in the pool of data. If you like I can supply you with the accepted Chinese-language corpora to search through if you have concordancing software.
The English also officially christened the city of Londonderry, though not everyone in that city accepted the name or its spelling. |
Putatively is a word relative to your version of what I wrote.
Yes, governments do establish ortographic conventions (the Academie Francaise comes to mind, as does the Real Academia Espanola, or the Russian Akademia Nauk, etc.). A decision is made and a norm is established. Strange enough, most countries of the world, and most map makers adhere to these norms, and sterile discussion as to what appears to be correct is the peruse of certain members of this Forum alone. It is surely useless to reinvent the wheel.
Whether or not "everyone accepts the spelling " is moot. If the Post Office accepts it, the United Nations accept it, if the the encyclopediasts accept it, etc., and so on, it is almost "risible" as the French say to debate the issue.
It is the norm and it is established. And frankly, do you don't stand a chance in h*ll of undoing it or having your own particularity accepted. |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: The Place Name Commission of China |
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| Alex_P wrote: |
| I draw attention of the readers to TW's postings in particular where she wrote Guangzhou and was criticized by the more senior members of the Forum for not having written Guang Zhou, or variations thereof. |
I am a woman??? 
Anyway, I don't really think there are any written rules written in stone as to how city names are supposed to be written in pinyin. In Dalian I saw Dalian, Da Lian, and DaLian. I don't think it is an issue at all. |
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Alex_P
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 174
Location: Hangzhou. Zheijiang, China
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:23 am Post subject: Re: The Place Name Commission of China |
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| tw wrote: |
| Alex_P wrote: |
| I draw attention of the readers to TW's postings in particular where she wrote Guangzhou and was criticized by the more senior members of the Forum for not having written Guang Zhou, or variations thereof. |
I am a woman???
Anyway, I don't really think there are any written rules written in stone as to how city names are supposed to be written in pinyin. In Dalian I saw Dalian, Da Lian, and DaLian. I don't think it is an issue at all. |
As I explained, the Chinese Government Commission has set forth the official Pin Yin spellings of certain cities. It's on the books and it's there. Whether all choose to you use them is a different matter. A dictionary lists the normative spellings of words but whether all choose to use them or not is also a different matter. |
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Zero Hero
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 944
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| You really don't understand how it works, do you? |
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tony lee
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:32 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for that Alex_P. I must admit to using all sorts of variations only because everyone else seemed to. I note on my several maps of China, some printed in China and others in the west, the system you talk about -- just one initial capital and no spaces -- is universal.
Except of course where the place is a mountain or lake or such when there are two separate words. |
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Alex_P
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 174
Location: Hangzhou. Zheijiang, China
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| Zero Hero wrote: |
| You really don't understand how it works, do you? |
Risible. Tout a fait risible. Rien que stupide. |
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