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tofuman
Joined: 02 Jul 2004 Posts: 937
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:55 am Post subject: |
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AlexP
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Alex_P

Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 174 Location: Hangzhou. Zheijiang, China
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| tw wrote: |
Uhmmm...how were they even certain that it was HIM who wrote those things they printed off the forum? Even if they knew it was him, how could they have possibly known that he visited that particular web site with that particular user name? Surely he was stupid enough to have told someone who turned around and snitched on him?
I have heard of FT's like him. One was in Qingdao who told his Canadian collegue that he came to China to "change China". He went as far as encouraging students to hold anti-government street demonstrations. Not only was his contract not renewed and he was promptly shown the exit sign to leave China, but because of his close relationship with the Canadian (who was well-known in Qingdao) his collegue was also dragged into having to seek employment elsewhere.
Another one was a Chinese British born and raised in Hong Kong who taught at my last school. She was branded a "spy" by the dean of the foreign language department for criticizing (more like b*tching) about practically everything and anything about China.
IMOHO, there is a time when for the sake of one's job security and personal safety, anyone who is a foreigner in another country is best to keep his/her personal opinions to a minimum or even better, completely to himself/herself. I am not paranoid nor a spineless jellyfish but you never know just who might be keeping tab on what you say. Someone could be trying to destroy you either for vengence over past petty squabbles, or trying to sabotage your career due to jealousy derived from lower pay, etc. Need I remind anyone about EF? There is a time and a place for freedom of speech and freedom of expression, I just don't think while working in China is the time or place. Last but not least, some of you probably go to net bars for Internet access. Do you know what kind of keystroke recording software they might have installed on those terminals? Let's also not forget about browser history. Good luck in trying to delete the history files unless you have administrator access.
Hey you never know. Maybe I am actually a PSB official located in an airconditioned office somewhere in Beijing spying on laowais who may be spreading false propaganda about China, right?  |
Dear TW,
Thank you very much for your so aperpos comments.
The teacher in Hanghzou in question who was visited by the PSB was not, to the best of our knowledge, denounced or report by anyone. I think there was a common feeling that his private thoughts and comments should be best kept private. Nonetheless, he posted, quite frankly, on this site, and on others, and ranted and raved against Chinese, against the "yellow skins", his words -- not mine at all, against everything he disliked in China and he commented profusely on racial issues. Everyone knew it and if there is something all of these newbies on this board should learn about China it is that in China there are no secrets at all, or very, very few. Everyone knows, although they may not tell you that they know. It's just China and it's been like that for thousands of years. It's one big small town believe or not, and for these reasons alone, I love it.
Anyway, the PSB did arrive at his front door at 07h30 on a Monday morning, very, very politely, truly politely, but with the complete panapoly of his online rantings in hand. They reminded him of the provisions of the SAFEA contract and they also reminded him that he was essentially being paid by the Government of China as a public middle school teacher. Frankly speaking, there is nothing invalid or incorrect about this last point. We are all guests of the People's Republic, and or permanency therein replies upon respect for the laws and customs of the Republic.
I do know for a very pertinent fact that they were less than pleased with all of the written aspersions and since the teacher, in true American fashion, refused to recant anything, the teacher ran into a multitude of indirect problems, such as happens to one in China.
His autistic son's visa suddenly ran into problems, his contract was not renewed, the telephone ceased to work, etc., etc. Frankly speaking, the comments were horrific. We all had read them.
The foreigners that are in China are here because they chose to come here. There is no questions that they should respect the laws, mores and customs of the Republic since they are here voluntarity. Because they or we are native English speakers we are given a blanket waiver of the law, of the customs and of the mores.
Perhaps I am the only one on this entire Board so say this but China has been terribly good to me. I have a huge beautiful apartment full of traditional Chinese art. I am immensely respected by my professional colleagues. I have been officially told that All wish that I remain in China for the remaining years of my life. I am hosted to wonderful dinners on a very regular basis and truthfully my slightest wish is attended to immediately and very correctly. I have a wonderful salary and an expense account that is open-ended for daily requirements. I lack for nothing. I am treated with extreme deference and I am sollicited for employment by all of the news in the city where I reside. I personally am extremely happy and endeavor to respect the laws and customs of the Republic as well as to be a proper foreign expert in a wonderful country.
And no I am not a recruiter. But I will tell that having taught ESL in the New York City Public School system for years, and having dealt with the drugs in the New York City schools, the guns, the hooligansim, the acute problems, the lack of desire to learn, China for me is simply wonderful. I will never leave. |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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Good post, Alex.
I was recently labelled a 'windbag' by someone who outed himself unceremonously as a "neocon" from the other side of the big pond. I earned this qualification for my opposition to people working up local students against their own rulers (this happened before 4th of June!).
That guy has poured forth much more than just anti-establishment propaganda in his host country; he said in another forum that his compatriots shouldn't feel any shame or regret for the decimations they have wrought on the native Americans and their culture...
What surprises me is that a noted U.S. legislator and lawyer goes to the trouble of "teaching English" in China of all places when he has an open agenda that calls for the toppling of the ruling elite here.
I do not feel specially grateful to the Chinese authorities; they do not treat us as "guests" - in my opinion they do not know how to treat guests since they don't even know how to treat their own people.
But that doesn't mean I must join this country's legitimate government's opposition. I have no stake in this country apart from my home; change is needed, but it must come from the grassroots. |
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danielb

Joined: 08 Aug 2003 Posts: 490
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I still want to know what the offence was? |
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Alex_P

Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 174 Location: Hangzhou. Zheijiang, China
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:56 pm Post subject: Thank You |
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| Roger wrote: |
Good post, Alex.
I was recently labelled a 'windbag' by someone who outed himself unceremonously as a "neocon" from the other side of the big pond. I earned this qualification for my opposition to people working up local students against their own rulers (this happened before 4th of June!).
That guy has poured forth much more than just anti-establishment propaganda in his host country; he said in another forum that his compatriots shouldn't feel any shame or regret for the decimations they have wrought on the native Americans and their culture...
What surprises me is that a noted U.S. legislator and lawyer goes to the trouble of "teaching English" in China of all places when he has an open agenda that calls for the toppling of the ruling elite here.
I do not feel specially grateful to the Chinese authorities; they do not treat us as "guests" - in my opinion they do not know how to treat guests since they don't even know how to treat their own people.
But that doesn't mean I must join this country's legitimate government's opposition. I have no stake in this country apart from my home; change is needed, but it must come from the grassroots. |
Roger,
Thank you for your lucid comments.
I actually have been treated as a guest. Perhaps I am the freak on the board. I have the Education Committees of at least two adjoining cities trying to recruit me actively all the time. I am having a wonderful life in China, really wonderful.
Today I went to the dentist. My teeth are in poor shape. The dentist and his assistant worked to rejuvante my mouth, so to speak, for more than 2 1/2 hours. And worked hard. I had better dental care than I ever had in America. And the price for everything including a new bridge, cleaning, bonding, you name it? RMB 80. In the States, that won't even buy you the entrance ticket into the dentist's office.
I have actually come to agree with so many of your posts concerning non-native speakers, pay, etc., etc. Thank you. Have a pleasant evening. |
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Alex_P

Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 174 Location: Hangzhou. Zheijiang, China
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| danielb wrote: |
| I still want to know what the offence was? |
Read your SAFEA contact carefully, particularly Articles 1 - 10.
Read the Chinese Civil Code Concerning Permanency of Foreigners in China, Articles 15-30. It's all there in black-and-white.
Ale |
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danielb

Joined: 08 Aug 2003 Posts: 490
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Can you quote the ACTUAL OFFENCE for me please. It's okay if you can't. Just let me know. Thanks. |
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tofuman
Joined: 02 Jul 2004 Posts: 937
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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AlexP
I won't be intimidated by sophists from the West in the name of political correctness.
If behaving like a gestapo informer is your idea of serving China, then you have a value system quite different from mine. It may satisfy the baser elements here, but is certainly unworthy of people with the same outlook as mine.
I'm sorry to say that in the way of decent human beings, there were few, if any, among the administration that I worked with at the school that employed me.
If your employers are anything like mine, (I hope they are not) the only reason you are being treated so well is because you are as devious and nefarious as they are.
Incidentally, I hope you realize that your "traditional art" was almost certainly recently painted by some folks in a local sweat shop. The art and antiques here are nearly all fake. It would be extremely unlikely that anything of real value would fall into your hands, whatever your employers might tell you. But if you like it, enjoy it. |
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Midlothian Mapleheart
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 623 Location: Elsewhere
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Edited to remove offensive content.
Middy
Last edited by Midlothian Mapleheart on Mon May 29, 2006 8:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Henry_Cowell

Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 3352 Location: Berkeley
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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tofuman,
Are you a homosexual? I ask this only because you continually refer to a certain Middle Eastern Jewish heretic who surrounded himself with a harem of 12 men and whose blood you relish drinking. Forgive me, but it sounds rather kinky and degenerate to me. These are the the sorts of activities that are found only in places such as Berlin and New York and other degenerate Western centres of perversion. |
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Alex_P

Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 174 Location: Hangzhou. Zheijiang, China
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:54 pm Post subject: Tofuman's Comments |
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To all regarding Tofuman's comments and to those users who have been kind enough to second many opinions,
You now notice that many of Tofuman's rantings have been edited out by the moderators and by the owner of this Board.
For example, the posting in which he accused me of being a homosexual has simply been reduced to a "EDITED OUT BY MODERATOR".
Additionally, another posting in which he referred to Chinese as "yellow-skinned" has also been reduced to nothing.
I would like to thank publicly the moderators of this Forum for understanding reason and for understanding the need to remain with the confines of the law for any site that is viewed in China.
I also have every reason to believe that Tofuman has been talked to privately.
As for Tofuman, I always welcome your free exchange of ideas, provided it remains free of diatribe, invective, injurious comments, racist remarks, etc. If you can engage in helpful, insightful dialogue, I will always reply. |
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tofuman
Joined: 02 Jul 2004 Posts: 937
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Alex, you are either becoming delusional or exhibiting characteristics of poor scholarship. I just clipped and pasted the quotes below from the board:
"I want to be as sensitive as I can in asking this question: Are you homosexual? It is primarily in the gay community that I have observed the combination of traits that you exhibit. I noticed it at times in the psychiatric security units as well, but those people did not function well in society. "
"The dislike of Mainlanders for ABCs is well known among the Chinese community in the States, yet you came here with not only yellow skin, but substandard qualifications. I talked with an ABC about coming to China a few years ago. She said "No way. They don't like us." She knew about it. why didn't you?"
Please notice that I said that your combination of traits is more common among homosexuals or prison inmates. You may or may not be either. Your sexual preferences are not at issue. Your style of threatening and intimidation is. As for referring to tw as someone with "yellow skin," he referred to himself that way. And the people in China often describe themselves that way. They are not ashamed of having "yellow skin." There is no reason for them to be. Many of them are whiter than I am. I have personally compared skin color with friends here. They think nothing of saying "Your skin is white, mine is yellow."
Your imperiousness in this regard tells me that you are a either novice here or it is just another manifestation of your unusual [disordered]personality traits.
MIDDY,
I'm surprised that you put your dog into this ring. I was invited to work here and provided with a contract stipulating the conditions of my employment. I spent more money preparing for this trip than I earned in my entire first year of employment. The things with which I was provided were part of a business agreement, not the largesse of the government. There has never been a host/ guest relationship here. No guest would ever tolerate the kind of treatment from a host that I received.
I spent my first (~) month here virtually under house arrest, was forbidden from travel, spied upon, verbally abused, cheated, repeatedly lied to, conspired against, and compelled to live in a flat so noisy that I was often unable to sleep or rest.
My disdain for my employers is well known to them and to the provincial FAO. There is certainly nothing racist about rehearsing the facts of my employment. My employers routinely abuse their Chinese employees as well. I advised one to return to her family farm rather than work in such a place. Another I told to leave before he becomes like his boss.
These people routinely abuse and mistreat each other.They have no concept of harassment in the work place. They just avoid each other until things cool down. Young, recent college grads are burned out after a few years, just going through the motions, passionless, leading their lives of quiet desperation. But as I plainly told them, "I don't have to put up with this, I have options."
I'm not sure how forgiving the Chinese are. An ABC friend of mine told me that "the Chinese never forget."
The PSB had no problem recently upgrading my visa. I have a new and interesting opportunity here, free of Solzhenitsyn like characters from First Circle
For those of you who continue to slave away in a demeaning job because the beer is cheap, watch Hotel Rwanda sometime.
Last edited by tofuman on Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:44 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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Alex_P

Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 174 Location: Hangzhou. Zheijiang, China
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:18 pm Post subject: Your Question |
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| danielb wrote: |
| Can you quote the ACTUAL OFFENCE for me please. It's okay if you can't. Just let me know. Thanks. |
If you are really insistent upon knowing the actual offense, I could e-mail you privately the teacher's-in-question e-mail, her lawyer's telephone number, the name of the person at the Consulate who had the joyless pleasure of trying to calm the Chinese authorities, etc., etc.
I think it would simply be a lot better to consider the old adage : when in Rome, do as the Romans.
And to consider that if you are China, teaching at a public institution, and being paid from the purse of the Chinese Government, it might be prudent at best to remember that and not engage in hostile racist comments, political activity, etc., etc.
I, for one, am actually ashamed of many of the foreigners I come across in China : either they are here to convert this wonderfully historical country to Christianity or to remake it in the political mold of the United States, both of which are truly erroneous concepts and actions.
Frankly speaking, the star is setting on the American firmament, both politically and economically. And I think that China knows that.
Do you know for example, that it is Chinese direct investment in the United States through Treasury Bonds and government offerings that is keeping the United States government financially afloat? See the New York Times on that one.
Do you know for eample, that it is Chinese direct investment in factories and corporations in the United States that have provided many jobs in the otherwiss lusterless American economy? See the New York Times on that one.
Do you know that the Chinese have propped fallen American business icons like IBM, Maytag, RCA, and a host of others by simply purchasing their assets and restructuring the companies, providing tens of thousands of American jobs?
And so on... |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Alex_P wrote: |
| Nonetheless, he posted, quite frankly, on this site, and on others, and ranted and raved against Chinese, against the "yellow skins", his words -- not mine at all, against everything he disliked in China and he commented profusely on racial issues. |
Well, without naming names (you know who you are), I must say that I find some of the posters' comments made on Dave's repulsive but not as bad as those made on other forums by some users who also visit Dave's. This may explain to those who invite me to their forum why I don't participate in your forum's discussions because really, I find some of the posts in poor taste, immature (gave me the impression the posters were a bunch of adolescents), and offensive. Some FT's like using the old argument that this is a forum for foreigners and as such they have some sort of unwritten God-given right to exercise their freedom of expression. But how would they like it if Chinese people were to ridicule them? Commenting on one's dislike of being stared at is one thing, but it's another thing when one compares Chinese people's eating style to that of pigs. I may not be a Chinese national nor a communist, but I am still proud of my Chinese heritage and a derogatory remark on Chinese in general is also an attack on me and my parents. To a certain degree those posters' remarks, which resemble attitudes from 1950's southern USA and apartheid-era South Africa, show a complete unwillingness to understand and to adapt. Based on some posters' posts, I am reminded of TV and movie images in which Westerners in Shanghai (mid 1800's to early 1900's) looked down on the Chinese and even went as far as comparing us to dogs ("Chinese and dogs are not allowed to enter"). Any wonder why so many Chinese have this extreme dislike of Westerners and why in general they are such a passionately nationalistic people? |
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tofuman
Joined: 02 Jul 2004 Posts: 937
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:29 am Post subject: |
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FYI: No one has "talked to me." AlexP's megalomaniacal fantasies are now becoming delusional public displays of onanism.
It is insulting to the administrators of this board to suggest that they are puppets of the ilk of AlexP.
Last edited by tofuman on Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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