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Kymro
Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 244
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 Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: ha ha |
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| biffinbridge wrote: |
Dear Kymro,
You are simply wrong.I've got the contract in front of me as they've just offered me a job. |
About what?
That the semester is 58 hours, and that you work 29 weeks a year and not 39 as you stated?
That (according to a well known internet site) the school has an extremely poor reputation in Poland?
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| 70 zl/hour minus a low rate of tax is what they pay, period. |
Per teaching or clock hour?
I can say with absolute certainty they don't pay 70zl per teaching hour where I am.
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| Next time I need your advice I'll p.m. you but don't expect it to be soon.Believe it or not,you actually have to be rather good to get and keep jobs in the M.E.,represent universities at IATEFL and work for UCLES as I have.Cheerio. |
Well in that case why work for a company that makes you wear a name tag as if it were McDonald's 
And remember in Poland you do have a choice.
Last edited by Kymro on Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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biffinbridge
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 701
Location: Frank's Wild Years
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:00 pm Post subject: You just can't let it lie.... |
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Yes,I have a choice and I can teach outside and in addition to the 'normal' term.Business English classes can be continuous.
My contract states that my pay is 70zl/40 minute teaching hour,as was published by Profilingua on the net, NOT 40al/60 minute clock hour.Is that clear enough or do you want it in seconds?
My present post,on rotation for an oil company requires that I wear a name badge and also carry a security pass and desert pass for outside travel.The company also holds my passport.It pays well.The last oil company I worked for also required that I wear a name badge.What is the big deal?In addition people wear safety boots and clothes;adults get used to accepting company rules and regulations.
You talk about Profilingua being a school;it is a chain of schools,some good and some probably not so I'm sure, but you can't fault their rate of pay.Even if you teach the minimum 29.5 weeks you make about 62,000zl/year minus tax, teaching 30 forty-minute classes a week.You then have June-September to do summer school and have a month's holiday.A new teacher at IH Bydgoszcz will earn 13.500zl in the same 9 month period teaching 25 hours/week.He will get 35zl/hour overtime.You do the maths.
I have been to and fro since 95 and know the place well.The deal they have offered ME is a good one,that is why I have chosen to go there.
I have no desire to be a D.O.S.-I like being in the classroom.Profilingua pay classroom teachers better than anyone else I've seen in this country although I must say that PriceWaterhouseCoopers paid me 150zl an hour back in 97 as a language consultant.
I am returning to Poland for family reasons.Can you tell me how and in what way Profilingua's credentials are more 'MacDonald'slike' than their competitors Bell,IH,Berlitz,Speedcallan and so on?When you have others who depend on you,work is about money;I can take care of the teaching.
My Polish friends,(and there are many), have all told me that the school I am going to work for is very good and that is why they continue to study there.Moreover, the teachers I have spoken to are returning.The thing about reputations is that it really depends on who you talk to;people tend to moan on forums as you may have gathered from some of my past posts!In EFL you'll always find those whose expectations were unrealistic to start with. |
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biffinbridge
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 701
Location: Frank's Wild Years
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:34 pm Post subject: The website |
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| Yep,I've just visited the website you recommended.'Bardzo fajna atmosfera','jest bardzo ok','najlepsza rekomendacja','wspaniali lektozy',generalnie polecam','generalnie dobze ucza'.Now I'm definitely going.Skimming through it ,yes there is a great deal of good and bad stuff up there.However,many of the really ardent critics are ex,non-native teachers and habitual posters.What's more the school I'm going to work for hasn't been panned.Having been there and met the staff myself I am really not worried.I'd recommend the place to anyone who's interested. |
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Kymro
Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 244
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe have a look here as well:
http://www.ang.pl/szkoly_jezykowe.php?oid=8
The comments are truly awful, and I suspect the few positive ones to be a plant.
Profi has the reputation of being a 'cheap' school.
The reason its 'cheap' is that its no bloody good.
Classes of 15 (now in Poland the norm is <12 or even <10).
Semester of 58 hours (the norm is 60).
Teaching hours of 40 minutes (the norm is 45).
The better schools provide the course book in the price - Profi doesn't.
It is an advertising and business success based on cutting corners, (as I've shown above), and its basic shoddiness and lack of quality is reflected in the negative comments of former students.
Last edited by Kymro on Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kymro
Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 244
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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About the pay:
We are very lucky 'cos there happens to be a Profi-Lingua job advert on this very site:
http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist/index.cgi?=read=10782
The pay is 2900 - 6000 monthly for between 14 to 24 80 minute classes.
Now lets take the upper range - that would give you 48 40 minute lessons a week, or 192 a month.
Now 6k - the maximum according to the advert - divided by 192 comes to just over 30 zl per hour, significantly less than I earned here 8 years ago.
Their advert contradicts everything you've been telling us.
So whose version of pay is correct - yours or your company's
Are you sure you haven't confused lessons and hours in your contract? |
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Kymro
Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 244
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: ha ha |
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| biffinbridge wrote: |
| Next time I need your advice I'll p.m. you but don't expect it to be soon.Believe it or not,you actually have to be rather good to get and keep jobs in the M.E.,represent universities at IATEFL and work for UCLES as I have.Cheerio. |
Maybe you should try p.m.ing me.
It could save you a lot of potential grief.
Do your many and varied skills include the ability to read a contract properly? |
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Alex Shulgin
Joined: 20 Jul 2003
Posts: 553
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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We might not know for sure how much Profi-Lingua pay but we know that they are taking a chunk out of Kymro's share of the market. Otherwise he wouldn't be so eager to put the boot in to them!
Why don't you tell us how much teachers earn at your school Kymro? Tell us how much you pay teachers, the qualified ones and the unqualified ones. |
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Kymro
Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 244
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Alex Shulgin wrote: |
Why don't you tell us how much teachers earn at your school Kymro? Tell us how much you pay teachers, the qualified ones and the unqualified ones. |
More than the 31.25 per hour found in the Profi Lingua ad, but less than the 70 per hour my friend claims to have been offered. |
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Alex Shulgin
Joined: 20 Jul 2003
Posts: 553
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Kymro wrote: |
| Alex Shulgin wrote: |
Why don't you tell us how much teachers earn at your school Kymro? Tell us how much you pay teachers, the qualified ones and the unqualified ones. |
More than the 31.25 per hour found in the Profi Lingua ad, but less than the 70 per hour my friend claims to have been offered. |
So you mean you have an interest in bad mouthing Profi-Lingua because if people think P-L pay 70zlots per class you won't be able to employ teachers at your current rate of pay. And so you will personally lose money.
How much more do you pay than 31.25zl per 45 minute class? Gross figure please. And how much do you charge a company for that 45 minutes of teaching time? |
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Kymro
Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 244
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Alex Shulgin wrote: |
So you mean you have an interest in bad mouthing Profi-Lingua because if people think P-L pay 70zlots per class you won't be able to employ teachers at your current rate of pay. And so you will personally lose money. |
P-L do pay something close to 70 zl per class. (According to their ad).
The problem would occur if they imagined they would be paid this per 40m
lesson.
But as it appears they don't I am not greatly worried.
| Quote: |
| How much more do you pay than 31.25zl per 45 minute class? Gross figure please. And how much do you charge a company for that 45 minutes of teaching time? |
Would you like to work for me?
Send me an application and we'll discuss conditions.
Obviously, I'm not prepared to disclose commercially sensitive information over the web.
I suggest the kind of figures you believe a Warsaw teacher should be looking to get would be quite close to the mark.
As regards companies and the 'cut' teachers get - its a free market.
No company is obliged to have lessons with us; and neither are teachers obliged to work for us.
You would be mistaken if you believed this 'cut' generally to be excessive, (tho of course sometimes it is). |
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biffinbridge
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 701
Location: Frank's Wild Years
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:37 pm Post subject: It's like beating ya head... |
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| Dear Kymru,for the final time-Profilingua pay 70zl/ 40 minute 'hour' minus tax.This was clarified by myself explicitly at interview and I have it in the form of a written contract.Classes are taught as 2 joined forty minute periods ie, 80 minutes,for which you get paid 140zl minus tax.Most teachers teach 15 plus classes a week ie,30 hours.Conversation classes are optional and you sign up for them at the rate of 70zl-tax/40 minute hour.I HAVE THIS IN BLACK AND WHITE in English and Polish.It could be that you are the cheapskate as Alex has clearly pointed out.Think about it:24x70=1680x4 weeks=7,720.minus tax works out at about 6000zl.Nobody can teach 24 'two hour' classes a week...not even Berlitz,Linguarama and Speedcallan parrots....erm teachers. |
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biffinbridge
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 701
Location: Frank's Wild Years
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:50 pm Post subject: Sorry typo correction. |
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| 6,720 -Sorry, minus tax....say about 10% if you're on some weird accounting malarky=more or less 6000zl.(24x70x4 approx). |
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biffinbridge
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 701
Location: Frank's Wild Years
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:00 pm Post subject: the ad |
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| I've just looked at the ad and I can see why there is confusion.It states that the average monthly salary is between 2,900 and 6,000zl.This is the average,some people earn a lot more.The teaching loads mentioned are the maximum and minimum.That means,if you do 14 80 minute classes ,you get paid for 28 hours.If you do 24 classes, you get paid for 48 and so on.The DOS was explicit about this as is the contract.End of. |
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Kymro
Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 244
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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So BB you must have finished your first month with Profi.
So did you get your 8,4k PLN you were telling us about for October
Another interesting question would be have they paid you yet
(They are not known to pay at the end of the month). |
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biffinbridge
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 701
Location: Frank's Wild Years
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:31 am Post subject: pm me |
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| Pm me I'm just about still here.ha ha |
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