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Babala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Henan
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 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| Hate to tell you but I am definately not in a major city. I also work in city that has at least 3 teachers of Chinese heritage who teach at the university level. They all have degrees. I am simply stating that your chances for employment would greatly improve if you had a degree. |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:51 am Post subject: |
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Good to know that you have three Chinese FT's there.
For what it's worth, this will be my last tour of duty in China. I am not planning on doing this for the rest of my life that's for damn sure. As we speak now I have another job that's getting finalized and they have said that my education background will not be a problem.
Last edited by tw on Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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anthyp
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 1320
Location: Chicago, IL USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:01 am Post subject: |
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Yeah I am with Babala on this one. Get a degree if you want to teach here, otherwise trying to play the victim isn't going to fly with us.
I have worked in a very small city for the past two years. There was a man from Singapore who taught at the local university. He looked and spoke Chinese. In addition to being able to pull Chinese girls like no other, this guy had absolutely no problems finding a job once he decided to leave. I mean he was juggling various job offers and eventually settled on one near Xiamen.
So give us a break already with this "woe - is - me" stuff. If you don't have a degree then that is your first problem with working here. If you do have a degree and you're still having problems, then yes there are many employers out there who simply want to trot out the white face but these are jobs nobody wants anyway. Finding a good job is hard for all of us, but you should be able to do it if you have a degree and are a native speaker, regardless of your skin color.
| tw wrote: |
| I hate telling you this too, but have you ever considered the fact that maybe your university is one of the VERY, VERY few in China that accept Chinese FT's and that's why there are THREE of them there? |
What about that friend of mine I mentioned? Are you seriously going to argue that this guy happened to work for one of these "very very" rare universities in China that hire Chinese - looking FTs, and that all of these job offers came from similarly "very very" rare schools? And that this school in Babala's city is also one of these "very very" rare schools? Hmm, maybe they're not so rare after all.
If you have a degree, and you're Chinese or Asian - looking, you just have to be persistent; if you don't, well, you can't really work here legally anyway. |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| So give us a break already with this "woe - is - me" stuff. If you don't have a degree then that is your first problem with working here. If you do have a degree and you're still having problems, then yes there are many employers out there who simply want to trot out the white face but these are jobs nobody wants anyway.If you have a degree, and you're Chinese or Asian - looking, you just have to be persistent; if you don't, well, you can't really work here legally anyway. |
Remember Tofuman? We had a nice discussion about this so-called "law" not too long ago and he admitted that it was NOT a law after all. So, show me where it says on the SAFEA web site (in Chinese or in English) that all FT's must have a degree to teach in China. I have looked hard and I didn't find anything. Don't give me some third-party web site that quotes SAFEA. I want the real deal.
There are plenty of posters on here who clearly don't have a degree and are still teaching in China. So why not tell them they are working illegally? Sounds to me like some people here tolerate non-Asian FT's teaching without degrees, but not Asian FT's teaching without a degree. What am I trying to say? Draw your own conclusion. Say, doesn't the "law" also state that government schools are supposed to hire people from UK/USA/Canada/NZ/Australia only? So since we are talking about working illegally in China, maybe all the Africans (be they white or black), Asians (Indians, Pakistanis, Filipinos, Singaporeans), and last but not least, non-British Europeans should all be rounded up and sent home eh? |
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mlalahoi
Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 54
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:50 am Post subject: |
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TW, i am not asian, but my best friend is Taiwanese-American, we came here at the same time and he had a really rough go of it.
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| So why not tell them they are working illegally? Sounds to me like some people here tolerate non-Asian FT's teaching without degrees, but not Asian FT's teaching without a degree |
this calls to mind an incredibly irritating fact. While my friend does in fact have a degree (so do I, BTW) that was inspected with incredible scrutiny, the other FT at his school is a white guy with no degree or certificate making 200RMB more per month. How, you may ask, did this guy get a z visa? The school gave him a copy of my asian freinds degree, knowing that the government officials in our province PSB office can't read english and don't know if the names match or not. I'm sorry, but that is is a heckuva slap in the face. |
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Babala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Henan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:02 am Post subject: |
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tw,
The 3 FT's I was referring to do not all teach at the same school, nor is it my school. It is getting harder and harder for a FT to find work without being a degree holder. Of course there are some out there and to answer your question, I would tell them they were working illegally if they were to repeatly come on the forum, whinging that they can't get a job. You know the situation in China. You knew for a fact that it would be harder for you to get a job. Whoever said life was fair? |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| mlalahoi wrote: |
| TW, i am not asian, but my best friend is Taiwanese-American, we came here at the same time and he had a really rough go of it. |
Augh! If anything, I'd bet it's the "Taiwan" as place of birth on his passport that's killing him. Sorry, but that's just the thing. Time and time again I've been asked the "were you born in Canada" and "you have a Chinese name" questions and comments. It's getting tiring having to explain to people that people who grow up in the West can speak English just as fluent as people born in the same country do. Also, as it has been pointed out before and especially true when an Oriental Westerner is trying to land a job with private language schools, the schools don't want the likes of us because we have no marketing value to them. A foreign face, preferably a white face, brings business. I was told recently by a middle school teacher from Shandong who is here visiting her cancer-striken mother that many public schools want to have FT's because then they can show off their FT's. You know, like on TV, etc. So it doesn't seem that many government schools hire FT's to improve students' education, but rather, it is to use the fact that they can hire FT's to recruit new students. Hmmm...come to think of it, that's not really different from the language schools is it?
| Quote: |
| this calls to mind an incredibly irritating fact. While my friend does in fact have a degree (so do I, BTW) that was inspected with incredible scrutiny, the other FT at his school is a white guy with no degree or certificate making 200RMB more per month. How, you may ask, did this guy get a z visa? The school gave him a copy of my asian freinds degree, knowing that the government officials in our province PSB office can't read english and don't know if the names match or not. I'm sorry, but that is is a heckuva slap in the face. |
My God! Didn't the PSB at least look for the name on the passport and see if it was on the degree? Well what can we say eh? Just about every FT in China knows that many FT's in China don't have a REAL degree. They are either fake or some online degree. Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. It is a HUGE insult. That is just plain wrong, wrong, wrong. You can tell your friend that I feel equally insulted as he does. Tell him to go to Korea or Japan, apparently the people there are not as discriminating as they do in China and Taiwan.
BTW where was the white guy from and are you guys teaching in a government school or a private language school?
Also, I once received an e-mail from a 19 year old Chinese American who'd been teaching English in China for a year. I am still trying to figure out how THAT could have ever happened.
Last edited by tw on Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:36 am; edited 2 times in total |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| Babala wrote: |
| The 3 FT's I was referring to do not all teach at the same school, nor is it my school. It is getting harder and harder for a FT to find work without being a degree holder. Of course there are some out there and to answer your question, I would tell them they were working illegally if they were to repeatly come on the forum, whinging that they can't get a job. You know the situation in China. You knew for a fact that it would be harder for you to get a job. Whoever said life was fair? |
Babala, I am not whining. I accept the fact that if I don't have a degree then I can't get a job. What I am bitter about is that while I am being told that I am not qualified because I don't have a degree, I see people who have the same level of education as I do (if not less) finding work with relative ease, and often with the help of their employer just because they have a foreign face. At the same time and by no means am I discriminating against people who are not from UK/Canada/USA/Australia/NZ, I am bitter that non-native speakers could get job while I, a native speaker, can't. OK, so you say they have a degree. But how do you justify people with a degree but who can barely speak English getting jobs teaching English? 99.99% of job ads ask for applicants from UK/Canada/USA/Australia/NZ *only*. So how do we explain the Eastern Europeans, Africans (INCLUDING white Africans) working all over China? Clearly they are working illegally too aren't they?
Anyways, I am almost finished with my TEFL certificate course so at least then I can say I have been properly trained to teach EFL and certified. It is by no means as good as a degree, but at least I know I do have the training required to do the job -- along with previous experience and true desire to teach. |
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oiboy
Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 142
Location: Middle China
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:54 am Post subject: |
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I have to agree with the fact that you legally need a degree to be teaching here. I think universities are more willing to hire non-caucasian people. I've been here 2 years working and found often times my qualifications as a teacher go only so far. I often get blacklisted with recruiters as soon as they find out I'm not white. It is frustrating, but hey, this is China. I'm having a hard time right now finding a summer job and I have both a degree as well as a teaching license. Many recruiters contacted me in earnest only to be totally disappointed when they see I'm not white. I found my university is fair with me and my colleagues. I'm not too sure about your experiences in big cities, but mine haven't been to good.
I wish you the best of luck in getting your degree BEFORE coming here.
If anyone has any summer leads feel free to PM me. |
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level
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:02 am Post subject: |
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well I wasn't expecting this when I got up this morning! I guess the whole Asian/Degree thing is a point of contention.
His surname is not Chinese. It comes from his fathers 1/4 English side. |
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dalong
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 116
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:28 am Post subject: |
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mlalahoi wrote:
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| The school gave him a copy of my asian freinds degree, knowing that the government officials in our province PSB office can't read english and don't know if the names match or not. |
tw wrote:
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| Didn't the PSB at least look for the name on the passport and see if it was on the degree? |
Of course, I may be wrong in this specific case, but generally what they do is scan the degree and then tailor it for another person on computer (changing names, etc). |
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hesterprynne
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 386
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:25 am Post subject: nouns |
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| much problems???? many problems? |
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wayne_weed
Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: crap...I'm 100% Chinese |
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| tw wrote: |
Got a degree? Got a TEFL certificate? None of the above? Your likelihood of getting a job will probably be 1 in 10,000. Got a degree or TEFL certificate? One in 1,000. Got both? One in 100.
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I have a BFA, which I realize is a pretty far cry from an English BA, but it's a degree nevertheless and I plan on getting my TEFL certification, which I actually do want because I have no experience in teaching.
One in 100 doesn't sound bad, but from what's been said, it looks like those 100 jobs will not likely be in attractive locations.
It's a pity that the worldview sees English as the domain of the white man, regardless of their nationality. I mean, am I wrong or does a blond-haired German with passable, but not proficient English and a slight accent have a better chance of landing work in China than an ABC with all the necessary certification?
Are these recruiters even aware that there is such a thing as an American-born Asian?
All-in-all, pretty discouraging. |
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Kurochan
Joined: 01 Mar 2003
Posts: 944
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:11 pm Post subject: Network |
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| I'd be good for you to network and find out which schools have accepted other people of Asian descent. I was at Shenzhen U., and to my surprise, the last year I was there, they hired a Singaporean teacher. It may be that they are going toward a color-blind hiring policy, after hiring some white bad eggs in the past. I'm at East China Normal University this year and we have a teacher who was born in Guangzhou but grew up in New Zealand, so they don't care either. |
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mlalahoi
Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 54
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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Dalong, as far as I know you are correct in most situations, i wasn't in the office when this transpired so I only relate it as I heard it from the person it happened to. However I have seen some instances of non-name matched documents being bundled together at my school and dismissed as unimportant because the (usually) very uneducated psb officials can not read even the simplest things, like names, and take no time to hold two names up next to each other and see if they look the same as long as the school's foreign affairs dean has disbursed cartons of ciggarettes and 100RMB notes to all the right people 
TW, we both teach at public schools (different ones), and are both from USA. The aforementioned "whitey" is from Australia and has the educational level of a kumquat. It is really, as many have said before, all about the advertising value of a "white" face, and all too often the actual education is completely ignored by both public and private schools. I really love China so far, but sometimes it is a little depressing to know that after all I am merely an "English Monkey"
But whenever I do get a little frustrated or discouraged I always try to remember the few excellent students that I am lucky enough to have, and it is those precious few that I am really here for....that and i eat 25 lamb skewers and drink a six pack and let the meat/alcohol coma take me away from it all for a few hours |
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