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Joe Gahona · Joined: 24 Apr 2004 Posts: 27 Location: New York City

"Lift your left leg behind you."

or

"Lift your left leg behind yourself."

The first one sounds better to me, and I don't think "you" becomes "yourself" in a case like this, where the sense of "you" being referred to is more physical. (It's really "Lift your left leg behind your body.") In cases like "Get over yourself" or "Go f--- yourself" or "You should think to yourself," the "you" being referred to is different.

Any insight?

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

To my ear the first example sounds both wrong and awkward.

Gregor · Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 842 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

I think that either one would be fine.

After a preposition (behind), you should use a personal pronoun if it's clear that the meaning reflects back to the original subject; that is, it wouldn't make much sense (or would change the meaning) if you were to mean someone else, such as "Life your left leg behind him."

IS that meaning clear? I think it is. So I would say "Lift your left leg behind you." But someone could, I think, argue the point that the second pronoun needs to emphasize the reflexive; that you need to be absolutely sure than no one misunderstands which person you are to lift your leg behind. In that case, "Lift your left leg behind yourself" would be correct. To me it sounds silly, but I'd say it's perfectly arguable. And, of course, either one is perfectly clear, so ultimately they're both fine.

BTW, if the first one (which I just said seemed the more correct to me) sounds wrong, you may be stressing the last "you" too much. It sounds perfectly natural to me, with the correct stress. If you are stressing the final pronoun when you say the phrase, you are basically stressing the "yourself," as opposed to someone else, and then, as I've pointed out, the second one would be correct.

Chris_Crossley · Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:17 am Post subject: "You" or "yourself"?

It is all a question of usage, I believe. We are so used to saying certain things that they sound perfectly OK and we do not question them until such time as we encounter some situation that makes us do so. For example, learning foreign languages, such as French and German, where the reflexive is quite common, can make us think about our own language.

The French for "I get up" is, of course, "je me leve" (sorry, no accents available on my keyboard!), which literally means "I raise myself", only we do not say "I raise myself" in English in this context because we do not use it. We might find some French student literally translating "je me leve" into English in this way, and, to our ears, it sounds absurd if only because we do not say it like this. Linguistically, however, it does make sense, however paradoxical that may seem.

Hence, "lift your leg behind you" sounds perfectly OK because we would not say "Lift your leg behind yourself" to mean the same thing. If anything, the word "yourself" is used to emphasize the idea that "you" should do this task rather than get someone else to do it, as in "Lift your leg behind [your body] YOURSELF!", in which case the appropriate stress would be used here, too. Plus, of course, there are instances where the words "you" and "yourself" are used together, as in "You yourself said so!" Again, the "yourself" is used in English for emphasis rather than in a reflexive manner in much the same way as "lui-meme" would be used in French for "himself" in a non-reflexive way.

Nomad Dan · Joined: 17 Feb 2003 Posts: 145 Location: Myanmar

How about "Try to touch your butt with your left foot" ?
Clearer communication?

Nomad D

Joe Gahona · Joined: 24 Apr 2004 Posts: 27 Location: New York City

But reflexives aren't used solely to emphasize. "Get over yourself" and "Think to yourself" illustrate this, no? The word "you" would not work in either case.

This might be a case where either is correct -- sort of like "I am taller than she is" and "I am taller than her" -- but I can't figure out why.

Ahmed_ONLINE · Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 24 Location: Saudi Arabia

To my knowledge, Lift your left leg backward" is a better option than both the sentences discussed above.

Gregor · Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 842 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

Ahmed,
That's not true at ALL. I will allow that colloquial spoken usage in some places would allow for "Lift your leg behind." I'm not familiar with any of those places, mind you. I'm just saying that I can imagine the possibility.
But in FORMAL use?? "Behind" is a preposition. In your suggestion, you leave it dangling without the noun it would require in any formal use of English.
I would say that "Lift your leg backward" could impart a different sense.