Job Discussion Forums

[JonnytheMann]

You people?

[Chasgul]

And you think my real name is Chasgul?

and I even went so far as to put AKA... unless that means something else in other parts of the english-speaking world? Maybe you prefer 'alias'?

[JonnytheMann]

You're real name isn't Chasgul?!

I just thought Henry_Cowell was his real name ... have no idea who the real Henry Cowell is.

It's kind of like if my screen name were Jeff_Morrison or David_Sherwood. You'd probably assume that was my real name, not the name of a tennis player.

[Gregor]

Yes,
I agree, spelling IS important. It's not the most important thing to our students, but it is very important. I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't. I DO encourage my students to fix my spelling, and I endevour to do so myself as well. It's embarrassing when I'm caught at something like "enfuriating." That couldn't POSSIBLY be a typo; the "e" and the "i" are seperated by four bloody keys!
I Do accept both British and American spellings now, though, unless I'm using MS Word (my keyboard is programmed with American spelling). For example, "endevour" above, may well be British. Americans would have good reason for spelling the word "endevor," though I don't honestly know whether they do or not.

By the way, my name IS Gregor. Gregor Zieglou. At y'all's service. :-)

[JonnytheMann]

My full name is Jonathan.

[matttheboy]

[Fatcat]

Gregor, THANK YOU for spelling y'all correctly! Being from the Southern US people think we're ignorant to begin with and when someone misspells the word (ya'll, yall) it just adds to it. I know not all dialects of English use it, but it does follow rules for contractions and is a great word.

[JonnytheMann]

Honestly, y'all makes perfect sense to me. It's so weird that English doesn't have two distinct 2nd person pronouns for the singular and the plural. Since I grew up in California before I moved to Nashville, I still say you guys, but it's the same idea.

Anyone know another European language that doesn't have at least two differnt words for you?

[Henry_Cowell]

I like the possessive y'all's:

Y'all got y'all's tennis balls?

[Gregor]

Henry Cowell,
That is not how you use "y'all." There ARE rules. ;-)

OK. In a second, I'm going to write a post that makes me look like a pedantic fool. But I, too, like the word "y'all," and I would also argue that the English language is lacking in this regard - there SHOULD be a pronoun for the second person singular. It amazes me that anyone would have to even point that out.
What's even MORE amazing is that English USED TO have one! Thou/thee/thy/thine was exactly that. Why in hell did we just let it go??

As for the rules governing "y'all": You would use "y'all" to introduce the fact that you are addressing more than one person, but you'd revert to the standard "you" once the point is made -
"Y'all have to work late, but you can do it any night you choose."
Also, note that "y'all" does NOT necessarily mean "all of you." It is simply a plural form of "you," and as such, it is not redundant to emphasize "all" of the people being addressed. That is, if you are addressing a group, and there is any doubt that some of the listeners might be excluded, the expression "all y'all" is perfectly acceptable.
Also note that in Henry's example, the second "y'all" IS redundant.
And I know this sounds like I'm taking the piss, and I SORT OF am, but it's also true - a native speaker of a dialect that uses "y'all" would instinctively follow these rules. "Y'all got y'all's tennis balls?" would only come from the mouth of someone making fun or else pretending to use that dialect. A Carolinean, for example, would say something like, "Y'all got'cher tennis balls?"

It's easy to make fun of that dialect, but it's pretty distinct. Also, it is a grave mistake to assume that a user of that dialect is ignorant. I know plenty of people who have used that misconception to their advantage. We've all seen TV shows that depict it, but a lot of people still make that mistake, and I don't know why.
Anyway, there are plenty of other plural forms of "you" floating around. I've heard "yous" from Scots as well as NE United Statesers, and Johnnythe Mann pointed out the West Coast "you guys," which drives me up a wall, but is still perfectly functional. Follows pretty much the same rules as "y'all," too (my brother's Californian, so I hear it often enough).

As for my spelling otherwise, yes, OK, I suck at it. I thought I had already pointed that out. Why would any of you assume that I was intentionally making spelling errors? Maybe I shouldn't use words like "endeavour" if I can't spell them, but if I were to limit myself to words that I could spell, I'd write like a six-year-old.
By the way, Shakespeare being a poor speller is very much no excuse. That was a different age. We all need to be careful. We'll still make mistakes, but we need to admit that they ARE mistakes, and we should try not to make them.

[merlin]

Now here's a differemt perspective: so many times I post to forums while doing somethig else - it's quite usual for me to have 5-10 windows open at one time on 2-3 different tasks. I stop by here ever so often to take a break and let my unconcious mind work through on a problem on another project.

Now when you start talking asbout the unconcious mind it can be very tricky - two-hand typing engages more of the right side of the brain than the "hunt and peck" method, which uses only your strong hand and in most cases only engages the left side of the brain. Anyone know which side controls phonology? I'd suspect it's the right side because I tend to spell more phonetically when I'm typing than when writing by hand and only engaging the left brain.
This is compounded by the fact that most of us only post to this forum around our normal work and never really give it our full attention.

So I'd suspect that these same people who keep whinging about other people's spelling in an informal forum never really multi-task. They focus on one thing at a time and chase it until it's dead. They're probably more likely to hunt and peck.
While those of us who could care less about spelling on an informal forum are more likely to be more versatile, flexible and in general likable and lovable people

How about that theory?

[EnglishBrian]

Gregor,

Some of the older people in the North of England where I grew up still use 'thee' and 'thou' - when I was a kid it was very common, less so now I think. Ironically among the 'educated classes' it's regarded almost as a sign of lacking education.

[Chasgul]

One of the problems 'thee' and 'thou' ran into was the death of the 'thorn' rune which looked like a backward 'y' and represented 'th'. That's why all those nasty touristy places tend to call themselves 'ye olde ...'. Illiteracy is not only a contemporary phenomenon.

[Gregor]

EnglishBrian,
I have actually heard that dialect on TV once or twice, and I really like the sound of those words being used unconsciously. Unconsciously is the operative here, because though I know the words well enough to use them, I would be ULTRA conscious of how anachronistic they sound and thus I wouldn't pull it off. Otherwise, I'd do my part to try to bring them back.
A similar old word that has mostly gone away but remains in some southern U.S. dialects is "yon" and the longer form, "yonder," which signifies something further away than "that", as in "this thing, that thing, and yon(der) thing." That beats saying "that thing, way over there," which is how I usually have to relate the idea of yonder.
I don't know why we English speakers allow our language to lose such useful words.

[Chasgul]

It bugs me when people write 'ect' for 'et cetera'.