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is there some / is there any
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Gregor



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 842
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris_Crossley is right.
OP didn't say where this question appeared. Just that "only one answer is correct." This is not true. If this question appeared on a test of some sort, it was a very poorly written one.

As for correct and incorrect grammar - sure, there are some cut-and-dried cases of what's correct and what is not. But there are also a lot of grey areas. This might be one of them. Only at lower levels would I worry about the some/any question, as in some for statements and any for questions and negatives.

This thread reminds me of the conditionals question that comes up all the time in TEFL. Newer teachers are unfamiliar with the concept until it comes up, unexpected, in a course book. There it is in a book, the rules sound reasonable, so they then teach it (and BELIEVE it) as a hard and fast rule.
But if you dig into the topic a bit, you'll find that it's NOT a hard and fast rule; in fact, it's scarcely a rule at all so much as an observation. Mixing conditionals, if it soulds OK, is FINE. I think we have a similar kind of thing here.
The moral of the story is that grammar is not maths.
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laura1d



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 108
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:28 am    Post subject: some / any Reply with quote

Hi there,

OP here!

The question was actually on a web site of a school that I was considering applying to work at. Only one answer was correct (according to the test).

Thanks again for all your replies. I know that English is not an exact science and agree that if it sounds right then it usually is ...... BUT after living so long overseas the strangest things start to sound 'normal'!!

Cheers
Laura
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merlin



Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 582
Location: Somewhere between Camelot and NeverNeverLand

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A poorly written test by a person who only got to headway pre-intermediate.

In Headway Intermediate it stressses that the any= ? or negative and some = positive" is only a general rule to follow 90% of the time. When I was a beginning teacher I fell into this trap - give a rule and then half a year later a student asks "Well what about that rule you gave us last year?" Ummm... err...

The test question is poorly written. Without a wider context to place it in either a or b can be correct.

In the context of a school site writing a test for a prospective teacher to evaluate their knowledge of the English Language, the the only possible answer is B because the writer never got to Headway Intermediate and will not hire you if you tell him his English isn't so good. Wink
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laura1d



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 108
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:43 am    Post subject: Ooops Reply with quote

Hi OP here!

Sorry, I was not clear in my post.
The question was on their website and it was written for prospective students - I came across it only as I was being nosey and was looking around their site.

It was not a question that they were asking me.

I read it - knew the answer but couldn't explain why it was B. It was bugging me so I thought I would ask you guys!

Hope that explains it...

Laura
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biffinbridge



Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 701
Location: Frank's Wild Years

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:10 pm    Post subject: Is there some fruit in the fridge? Reply with quote

OK, 'any' is clearly the correct answer.DMB correctly pointed out that we can use 'some' in offers,(hi Damo).However,no-one seems to have mentioned the fact that native speakers often use 'some' in the stated form and by altering their intonation give a clear indication of the expected answer.Also,'Is there some milk in the fridge?' can in fact be a kind of request as in- 'give us some then'.
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Chris_Crossley



Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Still in the centre of Furnace City, PRC, after eight years!!!

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: Is there some fruit in the fridge? Reply with quote

biffinbridge wrote:
However, no-one seems to have mentioned the fact that native speakers often use 'some' in the stated form and by altering their intonation give a clear indication of the expected answer.


Intonation has no bearing whatsoever on anything given in a written multiple-choice examination; if it did, it would mean that people would have to start second-guessing, which would be ludicrous.

biffinbridge wrote:
Also,'Is there some milk in the fridge?' can in fact be a kind of request as in- 'give us some then'.


What if it is? This is an "implication" and has little, if any, bearing on the idea that, here, one believes that there may be some milk in the fridge, but would like some confirmation of this.

Entrailicus wrote:
A drug dealer might say to a passing druggie, 'do you want to buy some crack cocaine?'. In this instance, said dealer knows that he/she has some crack.

A druggie, on the other hand, might approach a drug dealer and ask, 'do you have any crack?'. The druggie doesn't at this point know if the dealer has any.


This explanation basically mirrors the one I gave about whether there was any/some milk in the fridge in my previous posting. The fact that one person is saying "some" and the other is saying "any" is irrelevant, if that is the implication behind the two POVs here, as opposed to the same person asking if there is some/any.
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Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both 'some' and 'any' are correct. The test is poorly designed.
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moonraven



Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not only are both answers acceptable, math is also not an "exact science" and science is general eschews exactness. In many math problems, for example, the solution may be a positive or negative number--or even a range of numbers.
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Gregor



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 842
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, yeah, maths isn't (aren't? I dunno - I'm American) exact. Everyone gets the POINT, right?
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