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[JezzaYouBeauty!!]

Japanese culture.

I like history. I studied Japanese society & culture at University. I like to read books and watch docos.

I have read, seen and heard all the negative stuff about Japan. And in Korea, times a million.

I don't know the answer to this topic. Just hope for discussion.

I was looking at stuff on the web....and this...seemed to sum up the....vibe....I am feeling in Japan.....maybe.

"Many Japanese expats here in the States often speak of the "suffocating" feeling of being in Japan, but I've never heard it from a non-Japanese. This feeling has nothing to do with the fact that Japan is a small country or that you have to live in a tiny closet apartment. Rather, it is to do with the culture, such as social expectations, notions of shame, conformity, and honor. I would imagine that, for a foreigner to feel this sense of suffocation, he/she would have to have a deep understanding of the social fabric of Japan. The following is an interesting essay on this subject written by an American artist in Virginia, USA."

http://www.traces.ws/writings/gambatte.htm

Anyhow.....this is from a funny little website called http://www.alllooksame.com/.

Take the test. I got 9 out of 18.

[markle]

thanks for the links, finally some intelligent discourse.

as for gamabate article well I just got an email from a friend back home dealing with a corporate job, two young kids, a mortgage and a depressed husband. The kind of things the author was talking about are not unique to Japan, the language and cicumstances are but they are a symtoms of a post industrial society that exist from here to Europe to the US to New Zealand, and while Japan may not be dealing with as well no society has been successful either, just varying degrees of failure and apathy. Maybe that's the way it's supposed to be.
Still it's a much more important problem than all this 'racism' cokamamie

PS pls bring back the pizza. John Laws shoits me to tears.

[SEndrigo]

I think that "suffocation" is less for the foreigners, but I'm sure people who have lived here a long time and are familiar with Japanese culture feel it more than people who have just arrived.

The suffocation doesn't bother me, what bothers me is the sea of blank, emotionless faces I encounter when I step onto a train ar walk on the street.

For all of their social gains and financial success, most Japanese people, it seems to me, are utterly miserable and feel more impoverished than people from less successful countries !

For me it is a quality of life issue....yes, there are many good things about Tokyo and many nice places, but it seems like no one can really enjoy things because they're working all the bloody time.

Everyone seems to be focused on the new fashions, buying a new car, or going drinking with co-workers. Not a healthy lifestyle if you ask me.

All of this stuff - safe and clean streets, high standard of living, good healthcare, fantastic cuisine, etc, doesnt seem to matter to people since all they do is work and then return to their rabbit hutch apartments. There's not much to enjoy if you're stuck in the office day and night, and we haven't yet mentioned the rigid social customs that they're expected to conform to.

What would it take for them to break free from all of this?

[JimDunlop2]

Well, it's all very interesting from a foreigner's perspective. I don't feel suffocated at all. It's the way I live my life in Japan. In fact, I'm probably more active here than I ever was back home. I study kung-fu three times a week, my wife goes to the gym. I also have been studying tea ceremony for the past two years. On Fridays I have Japanese lessons. We go out for supper a few times a week, sometimes with friends and sometimes alone. We go to church on Saturday evenings and frequently on Sunday we take day trips.

Also, we've been known to take in a concert, ballet, theatre play, movie from time to time, and we love exploring new restaurants -- especially ethnic ones. We also love to travel. I love to take trips through the countryside on my motorcycle, and if the weather's nice we go out to the coast and do some surfing and bodyboarding.

I must be hanging out with the wrong crowd, because of all the Japanese friends we've made, almost none of them have ever travelled outside of Japan, and the ones that have, it was only once -- for a week, to an English-speaking country. Other than that, based on the conversations we've had, none of them have ever seen a theatre play (outside of their high school festivals) or a ballet, opera, concert, etc. They go to the movies once every two or three months (on cheap night) and go out for supper with friends once a month. Their weekend is usually spent at home, watching TV, doing housework and going shopping. They may have had hobbies, but only "a long time ago" when they were young and had more time to pursue them.

For example, the average reply I receive from anyone who learns that I do tea ceremony on a regular basis is:

"Sugoi! I do tea ceremony too."
"Really? How often do you go?"
"Oh... well, um.. it's actually been a long time since i went."
"That's too bad. About once a month then?"
"Well, actually I haven't done it for about 10 years... Not since I was in the university tea club anyway."

I'd say that many Japanese people try to have some kind of hobby -- something they can "get away" to do once a week for an hour. So when I used to teach "eikaiwa" the conversations I had with the students were among the most boring I've ever conducted with adults. Outside of work and family, English lessons were IT. YOU were their source of amusement and their escape from daily life for the week.... And because they had no time for other hobbies outside of weekly Japanese lessons, talking about their job and family quickly became dull. As a result, forget talking about hobbies, sports or interests. They have no time for that stuff because they're taking English lessons. I once had a student who was a cucumber farmer. His hobbies involved: attending a weekly English class, drinking shochu and watching movies on TV with his wife and fishing for squid on the coast one weekend every two months. Eventually he dropped my class because he became interested in learning Portuguese instead of English so he changed his hobbies around a bit...

Again, maybe I hang out with the wrong people, but I can't help but think that the above lifestyle is a fairly common/average one for many Japanese people. No wonder then that when they travel and live outside their own country they lose their feeling of "suffocation."

As for SEndrigo's question: I haven't the foggiest what it would take to break free from this. Occasionally I meet someone who doesn't fit the mold -- but that's rare. I know a Japanese gal who sports a beautiful spiral perm, wears interesting clothes, and dances capoerra (a traditional Brazilian type of dance). She also travels. A lot. She's been to Mongolia, Peru, and gone on the "Peace Boat." And that's just this past year. Her best friend works as a circus clown and makes baloon animals for a living... It's no wonder that she has very few Japanese friends and feels that she cannot relate to anyone around here.

As a matter of fact, the more I think about this, and as I'm writing this, I'm thinking of more and more people I know/have gotten to know.... A Japanese fellow I know has a hobby of importing/restoring classic American cars. He travels to California on a regular basis and brings back what he likes. The other day I saw him in a 1926 roadster. Great guy.... I also don't see him around too many Japanese peers. He usually hangs out with the ex-pats.

I also know a Japanese gal who studied in an American university. Spent lots of time in several cities. Her hobbies involve travelling to those places as often as budget allows, writing letters and calling her American friends, hanging out with expats, and working out at the gym several times a week. She has no (or few) close Japanese friends, and can't wait until her next flight back to the U.S. She tends to wear American-brand clothing, wears stars & stripes jewelry and accesorries, and also bemoans the fact that she feels so clausterphobic in Japan.... Her English is also quite fluent. Someone please get her a green card already!

I agree with SEndrigo. Quality of life is important. I wonder, how many Japanese, given a survey, feel like they have a quality lifestyle...

[JimDunlop2]

BTW, I second markle's vote. Bring back the pizza, Jezza. Who the heck is this "John" you have a picture of? Is he a politician or something?

[6810]

When I first cam to Japan, I felt utterly suffocated. But the longer I have lived here and the more fluent I have become in Japanese the walls and limitations have dissolved.

To me, post-culture shock etc, I think that the Japanese you describe Jim are fundamentally "chigau". What I mean is, in a society that values conformity there seems to be a real affection for being ordinary. When my wife and I discussed marriage, I said - no way - everyone that gets married becomes so mediocre. Just look at our neighbours..."

She said "Yeah, but we don't have to do it that way."

I was sold.

Furthermore to Jim, I worked at an eikaiwa last night for the first time in 3 years (currently in an elementary school). It was total flashback - I never knew at the time how boring those conversations were and I never knew the reason (I can't figure it out - people shell out all this dough for lessons and come in complaining they are tired etc). Nice story.