Job Discussion Forums

[PAULH]

I am having a heated discussion on Gaijinpot where I disapprove of the use of some words like "Gaijin used by native speakers of English when speaking to other English speakers in English.

e.g. Do most gaijins teach English in Japan?

Aside from the discriminatory nature of "gaijin" I just wondered what posters feel about "inserting" buzz Japanese words into English sentences as though they are part of an in-group of Japan-residents?

What do you think about mixing Japanese and English like this?

[Zzonkmiles]

I personally think some words simply either don't translate well into English or are so much easier to express using the actual Japanese word. For example:

携帯　(keitai) mobile phone
地下道　(chikadou) underground walkway
商店街　(shoutengai) shopping arcade
駅前　(ekimae) in front of the station
快速　(kaisoku) express (train)
親父　(oyaji) old man

"Meet me at the shoutengai."
"I forgot my keitai!"
"Let's wait for the kaisoku."

Those are words that we commonly see and use everyday.

I do agree that it's kinda stupid, however, to use Japanese words for words that the average foreigner wouldn't know without doing a bit of studying first. For example:

"Did you wasureru (forget) to take the keys for your jitensha (bicycle)?"
"I think this food is really sugoi (good/bad/whatever)."
"It is so samui (cold) in here!"
"A kuruma (car) is coming!"
"Looks like ame (rain), huh?"

As for "gaijin," the word itself doesn't bother me as much as the context in which it is used. In my office, my coworkers use the word "gaijin" fairly often. Even I use it when talking about other foreigners with them. We're on good terms and everyone is quite friendly with me, bringing me gifts and whatnot. When I hear one of them say "gaikokujin," I feel like they're being overly polite or are trying too hard not to hurt my feelings.

Because "gaijin" is a Japanese word or contraction of a Japanese word, the sheer power of it is lost on me. It's like when Japanese people say "f--k you!" when they're drunk. It's not their native language, so they don't really know the full nuance that the word has. That's why the word doesn't offend me so much. Obviously, if some oyaji is saying "go home, gaijin!" in Japanese, then it's much more offensive.

[canuck]

I rarely hear alien registration card. It's usually gaijin card. I also think the word gaijin isn't offensive generally. I believe it's how it's said, which is more important. I can be offensive, just like many words in English.

[JimDunlop2]

Hmm.. Well, how about I give you the perspective of someone who has either no mother tongue, or two of them, depending on the linguist you argue with.

In our home growing up, we spoke both English and Czech. It was not unusual for us to mix both languages, using words, phrases, sentences or even entire conversations in either language. What it came down to, was what came into your head first. If my mind produced a Czech word, then that's what would come out of my mouth. If it were an English word, then the opposite would happen. As such, there was no rhyme or reason to when this would happen. Although, certain topics were usually discussed preferentially in one language over another. For instance, I can't remember ever talking about sex in Czech, nor can I ever remember talking about politics in English.

Then, when I started my French Immersion education, the trend continued with French, although the teachers discouraged it and in time, through many, many years, we were eventually taught to speak more-or-less pure French... At least as much as was reasonable within the cultural constraints of the language. Until fairly recently, you could safely refer to your car's steering wheel as "le steering" or "le volant." You would use "le handbrake" or "le frein a main." Nowadays, efforts are being made to "clean up" the language and avoid what the French call "anglicismes."


Even now, I often mix Japanese with English when I speak with people, especially my wife. She is not Japanese, but Canadian like me. (Raised, monolingual, by the way).

I always use "keitai" instead of cell phone. "Genki" is almost second nature. If I want to say "How are you?" I just say, "Genki?" I always use "eki" to mean train station and "sugoi" when something amazing happens. I also use words like "okashi, omiyage, gohan, genkan, shoji, terebi, eakon, denwa, etc...." as naturally as if I had always spoken Japanese. Again, what it comes down to is what pops into my head first.

I try to keep it to a bare minimum when I speak with other English-speakers, especially if they haven't lived here for a while. But sometimes, I admit, people have gotten lost in conversations I have with my wife...

As for the word "gaijin," I'm not going to re-hash what I've already said about it in other threads. You can "Search" for it if you like, but sufficed to say, I hate the word. I personally think it's offensive, degrading, and should be done away with. If any Japanese person uses it within my earshot, I usually give them an earful. Using Japanese words in daily conversation, IMHO, is a COMPLETELY seperate issue than using the word "gaijin."

[PAULH]

One point I ought to mention: there is no plural "-s" in Japanese as in English and it seems odd that foreigners say "2 gaijins" where they won't say tomodachi-s or "densha-s" by adding an -s on the end. Japanese certainly would think it strange that we make purely Japanese words plural in this way.

I guess many of you say "keitai-s" for two keitai....its almost like they have become Anglicised Japanese words.

[Gordon]

I don't see any problem in mixing the two languages, within reason as Zzonkmiles stated. I also think it does reinforce the language when we are learning it.
I also don't see a problem when 2 gaijin use the word "gaijin". It all comes down to the intent of the meaning of the word and we certainly aren't discriminating ourselves. With Japanese people, I use gaikokujin.