Job Discussion Forums

[Henry_Cowell]

A 'typo' results from a misplaced finger on the keyboard. Those aren't 'typos'.

[englishgibson]

Dear Henry Cowell and Clark W Griswald,

I have noticed that you come on the EF thread often, read its posts and even participate in lately.

Would you be so kind to share your EF English First organization’s experiences with the forum participants, please?

Otherwise, peace!

Cheers and beers

[clark.w.griswald]

Englishgibson - As the instigator of the wealth of discussion about EF on this board, and as the one who feels justified in attempting to suggest that 'all EF schools are bad', I am surprised at how long it is taking you to come up with the evidence that you promised us all in an earlier post.

You stated that the problems were more widespread than the list that I have composed in an earlier thread, and that you would provide information about these schools. Unfortunately we (the users of this forum) are still waiting for this information that you promised.

I suggest that if you want to add validity to your claims that you actually support your own arguments, considering you are the one who brought these to this forum. Don't waste time trying to discredit those who have raised legitimate questions.

It's a simple question englishgibson, and one that you promised us an answer to previously. Which schools within the EF school chain warrant us all avoiding, and why?

Judging by the PM's I have received since becoming involved in this thread, I am sure that I am not the only one who looks forward to your answer.

I can't speak for anyone else here, but as to your question about which schools in the EF chain I may have worked at, I have no intention of discussing this with you as it is irrelevant to this discussion. Invalidate what I say on this forum if you can, but please be mature enough to concentrate on the topic rather than the people taking part in the discussion! At this stage your last ditch effort to attempt to discredit those who have raised valid questions about your posts really doesn't say much about your own credibility, nor the credibility of your posts here.

[Henry_Cowell]

[gulam2]

It is always interesting to see what charaters are on the thread/s.
I am sure that many would type cast me as a whiner and complainer (and in fact this is partially true). If one reads a number of contributions from one person one starts to get a picture. For instance Aristotle and Clark Griswald (on the Taiwan forum) now I get the picture that Aristotle comes up with some serious stuff also some stuff that is unsubstantiated ( so what!!) But he is cut to ribbons. Aristotle has nothing to gain, Clark (and his lists do). In the same vein this guy moves over to the China lists and starts harping on about "generalizations" "generalizations" nonsense.
Let me state it quite clearly it is my opinion (and I do not NEED to substantiate it) based on my 3 years experience in China that there are few good EF schools in China and that there are very many bad ones.
THis is an OPINION you as the reader can take it or leave it.
It is further my opinion that any system that gives stars to grade schools
(I worked and taught in the Hospitality Industry for over 20 years)
is flawed and misleading. This is also an opinion. You as the reader can take it or leave it. I do not, now or ever, need to substantiate my opinion
to the Clark Griswalds of this world who often argue for the sake of arguing.
I am, as I have stated before, extremely greatful for daveeslcafe for giving me the opportuinity to state my OPINION.

[clark.w.griswald]

Considering gulam2 and Englishgibsons constant complaints about how this thread was being derailed from it's purpose as a discussion about EF, I find their most recent posts quite amusing.

Guys, if you have something to say about specific schools in the EF chain then say it. If all you are going to do is throw around unsubstantiated accusations about the whole chain of schools, as well as those who question you about your comments, then you run the risk of degrading the value of this thread even more.

As to a resonse to gulam2's post above, well I certainly don't think that one is warranted as it is afterall his opinion and we have all seen how extreme his opinions can be.

Now, can I suggest again that we get back on track and see some of this evidence about specific schools that you have both suggested exists. I am starting to wonder whether any additional information apart from that already stated in this thread does exist.

[Midlothian Mapleheart]

Sorry, I just don't quite understand you HC and CG. EG and Gulam2 stated on Page One of this thread exactly which EF franchises they had trouble with, Huizhou and Zhejiang. They also were quite clear about their grievances and their personalities, which may have something to do with the rough ride. If you get food poisoning at McD's, it's quite likely that you'll have a low opinion of any place with that burger clown. I don't think documentation is required to state an opinion.

I also understand that Buxiban and other similar sites are set up with the best of intentions and must vet their info carefully. So, I think that HC and CG should just allow EG and G2's comments on EF to go unchallenged, and that EG and G2 should let Buxiban do their thing without comment unless they are willing to provide the details that site requires to set its ratings as they see fit.

Now you guys are just getting into tail-chasing and back-biting. If you are a Buxiban mod or an EF DOS, you should let people know your ID so we can get a clearer picture of this fracas. Just my 2 mao.

Middy

[clark.w.griswald]

Middy - No one is questioning the validity of these posters comments about the schools they actually worked at. Have a read back through my posts which start on page 6 and you will see that. I am sure that the experiences they outlined here are very valid.

My questioning comes about as to their continued insistance that based upon the experiences they had at the schools they posted about, that all schools in the EF chain should be avoided.

So my question is - Why should all schools in the EF chain be avoided? And wouldn't it be more useful for everyone to actually name the schools that they have problems with rather than making generalizations about all schools in the EF chain?

And no, I have absolutely no involvement with EF and don't really care either way if people do or don't choose to work there. I am merely suggesting a standard of comments about schools that would be more useful than comments of a general nature, or comments lacking specific information.

[deezy]

clark griswold:

[englishgibson]

Deezy, teachers should avoid the EF centers in China, because of the highly dangerous management techniques, standards and procedures that the EF English First Head Office practices in China. The good centers could turn BAD in no time. I worked at EF Fuzhou that from 200 students came down to only 50 students in a flash. You can take my word for it that it was not because of the slow business there. First four months at EF Fuzhou, I had a great time, which turned to a HELL later. The worst on this is that the EF English First Head Office in Shanghai knowingly has ignored the EF centers’ issues and assisted the employers/investors only. When the EF Huizhou dismissed a highly qualified teacher (referred by at that time the AOM himself Alex Chevrolee) due to his statement about his ambitiously compliant Director of Studies: “You are a dyke” neither the center provided a warning prior to the teacher’s dismissal nor the center consulted properly the EF Head Office in Shanghai to dismiss that teacher.
Of course that teacher was brushed off by the Head Office when complaining then. When the “EF Huizhou secret clone” was about to open (in two weeks time), I called the Academic Operations Manager Mark Rendell to inform him. His response: “Fax me the advertising leaflets, but don’t tell anyone you have spoken to me” put me in a situation to support EF Huizhou’s illegal clone and fax secretly the documentation compromising my Director of Studies position there. Those are some of the reasons that “ALL EF CENTERS IN CHINA” shall be watched out for.

If the locomotive conductor is not up to the job, the sixty-wagon train will be bound for a rough ride and the five or so nice wagons will not make a difference.

[clark.w.griswald]

[Chris_Crossley]

[clark.w.griswald]

[Chris_Crossley]

[clark.w.griswald]

Now that's a good school review. Thanks for the further information Chris and sorry for the earlier misunderstanding.