Job Discussion Forums

[OaklandZoo]

I think it's just like what Zzonkmiles said. There are going to be words that are better off not being translated. It was like that while I lived in America talking to another Japanese person (I'm Japanese). The Cathedral was always the Cathedral and the T (little subway they had downtown) was always refered to as the T.

As a Japanese national I never knew that "gaijin" was an offensive word. I guess it's like how some people think jap is not a bad word. I always thought that it was short for "gaikokujin" and you know how we just love to shorten things. And even if I were a gaijin living in Japan, I don't mind being called a foreigner, I think it's much better than an alien, as it says on my US green card (and I've been called an alien personally too. Granted I have a big head but I'm not that ugly).

Sorry I went a bit off track, but finally, seeing that there is a website many of you frequent that uses the word "gaijin" tells me that it's not really a bad word after all. I honestly doubt that the Japanese community overseas is going to create a website called jap-pot. Of course I haven't googled that yet so who knows, but it just seems unlikely.

[chixdiggit]

Well said OaklandZoo.

[SEndrigo]

Dear Oakland,

You are the first Japanese person I have ever heard say that "gaijin" is just a shortened version of "gaikokujin" and nothing more.

So there really is no difference between the two?

Do you really expect we will believe a Japanese person when he claims he didn't know it was offensive?

With all due respect, give me a break.

[SEndrigo]

By the way, the only reason many foreigners use "gaijin" is because they have no clue about the differences between "gaijin" and "gaikokujin".

If they knew, and if they had some respect for themselves and other foreigners, they wouldn't use it.

The funniest (or, saddest) thing is hearing some foreigners comment on how "cool" the word gaijin sounds. But of course, their ignorance is part of the reason why Japanese people can call us "outsiders" without fearing any retribution.

Imagine if in Canada or USA or Australia we called Japanese people or other foreigners "outsiders"....we would at the very least get incredibly dirty looks !

[chixdiggit]

LOL never underestimate the ignorance and oblivious nature of this country and its people my friend.

[Doglover]

[OaklandZoo]

Maybe I missed something important, like the word's origin and such in the 10 years I was absent. I shall find out the history myself.

And if not knowing = being ignorant, then that's fine, it's partly my fault for using something I can't define correctly. But once I find out what it really means, can I still use it by saying "no offense, but..." like Bill Parcells did when he described one of his surprising Jap plays? Did I believe that he didn't really mean to offend anybody when he said that? If he gets away with it, so should I. Ok I was joking, if it's really that bad a word I won't use it, I was just trying to make a point.

Finally, if gaijin is such a bad word (and is being used regularily into your everyday english conversations), then wouldn't it actually be OK for two non-Japanese to be using that word to describe themselves? It's like with the N word. And like I said above, I won't use the word myself now that I know it's not what I thought it was initially.

[nomadder]

Interesting.

Sherri took the words right out of my mouth and I really agreed with Markle too.

I think any minority group develops its own way of speaking that helps it to adapt to the culture it is living within. I never pluralized though so I don't know if that is across the board but funnily enough most people seem to use the same J words in their English. It probably comes down to if the word fits, use it. Sometimes it feels right, sometimes it easier(my boss said her bilingual kids would just pick the easier word-as in no cultural bias-a word is a word).

Gaijin seems appropriate as it most sums up our particular feeling of being a foreigner in Japan. I'm not sure I was ever clear on how offensive it is but maybe when we use it, it's like homosexuals reclaiming the word que-er. Take the negativity out of it. But if Japanese are using it offensively towards us what are the reasons for this? How do they see gaijin?

[PAULH]

[osakajojo]

The site they were on is called Gaijinpot.

I don't see a problem with it. I think when someone is around Japanese all day, some of the words just come out naturally, without giving much thought. Last week I was explaining something to a fellow gaijin and he answered back with "Wakata" then continued in English. I don't think he even realized he said it.
I am also guilty of answering my keitai with moshi moshi-even if it is my parents calling. I think it is fun. I'll also refer to people as genki too.
Of course if it were a professional setting I would refrain from using any Japanese buzzwords.
As far as the word gaijin, we have "gaijin houses","gaijin bars", "gaijin cards", "gaijin magazines", and the "Gaijin Pot" that many employers post jobs on.
And then there is the crazy woman I keep seeing at the bus station that yells out "Henna gaijin" every time she sees me.

[moot point]

Natsukashii! -- no way to describe this feeling in English (simply).

[freddie's friend daniel]

My husband and I met in Japan many moons ago and I can't remember a time when "rimokon", "pasokon", "genki" and the like haven't been part of our natural conversation. So what? In the mid-nineties there was a regular DJ on Kobe's Kiss Radio who had a habit of finishing what's-on reports with "check it out sh*te kudasai" and that also become part of our communication.
On the other hand, we would never run around telling each other, "I'm just iku-ing to the yubinkyoku to post this tegami". That wouldn't be natural conversation, it would be utterly artificial. I think the big difference is if Japanese words creep naturally into English conversation or if they are forced into it for show. I was a research student* in Kobe 10 years ago and I remember being in Sannomiya shopping one summer day when the JET renewals where in town. I was standing behind three young non-Japanese while waiting to cross the street. They were chatting away in English until one of them turned around, saw me and started chatting in -very poor- Japanese. It wasn't my reaction to get annoyed about it like Sherri's boss might have, for example. I just found it pathetic and a little amusing.

* You wouldn't credit it but I typed "kenkyuusei" here without thinking before deleting it for the sake of the purists!

[Akula the shark]

[Bozo Yoroshiku]

[6810]

Meanwhile,

I'm not sure what the big deal is with language borrowing. I mean, even within a language there are often several dialects or jargons in common use.

I am from regional, coastal Australia. Where I grew up, not only slang, but quite a few everyday words and phrases were unique to that area. I am sure this is the case all over the country.

Then, when a non-local comes into a social group and starts using his/her own Jargon (Sydney, Melbourne etc) the social group absorbs his/her words and vice versa. This is small scale language borrowing. But since it is all within the same language it may not appear so obvious.

Now, we can move onto Singlish (Singapore English) which is an assemblage of English, Malay, Cantonese and Tamil (possibly even Hindi thrown into the mix). There is so much borrowing and cross pollination, only those in Singapore seem able to keep up.

And are we forgetting India? Remember, with British colonisation and great regional language diversity, English is in many areas a defacto official language. But, hundreds of Hindi and Tamil words (depending on where you hang) permeate everyday English. Is anyone getting upset here?

Final comment. If within a particular group some foreigners in Japan pluralise Japanese words, what is wrong with this? After all, the rule in english is that most nouns can be pluralised by adding an "s". And as has already been said, given the large scale sophisticated linguistic borrowing English has done over the past centuries, surely, the very few pluralising foreigners in Japan are only caught up in an all too natural process of language acquisition and synthesis?

In learning Japanese in a 90% Japanese language environment, I have transitioned, by shades and degrees from English to Japanese. Sometimes I borrowed, sometimes I appropriated, remade, fought for and agonised over word choices. I have made hundreds of mistakes and felt stupid, undignified and hopeless. But now I speak Japanese (well, still getting there). Language borrowing was governed my my social context and was a key survival strategy in my everyday life.

Possibly the only place to get upset about strategic language borrowing and use is in the classroom, where both teacher and student ought to be aiming for perfection. Aside from that, though - go for it dudesdudettes. Mix and match!

And failing that - if all the language gets you too heat up - go for a surf - or - if you're too far from the beach (like me) go for a skate (agonising ingrown toenails not withstanding).

Ciao!