Job Discussion Forums

goulash · Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 2 Location: Japan

I'd like to throw a question out there...

Who else believes the European Community / EU are losing out in the TEFL area because most job postings are restricted to "EEC / EU members only"?

I believe the English (and a few who are lucky enough to hold dual-citizenship) are the only ones who have "native English skills" and still fit this profile.

Does this not mean the vast majority of native English speakers (Many of whom are excellent teachers) are excluded from the quality teaching jobs in Western Europe?

I realize that it is possible to get "under the table" work but what of the reputable companies that most of us would wish to work for?

Does anyone have experience (in recent years) of being a non-EU passport holder and teaching legally in an EU member country? I would especially love to hear of your experience finding work.

Would love to hear from anyone with an opinion.

Goulash.

PS This is not meant as an attack against Citizens of the EU. I just feel the teaching industry in Europe is reducing its options and as such losing out.

Moore · Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 730 Location: Madrid

The population of the UK is 59.5 million. The population of the Republic of Ireland is 4 million. I think we have enough legal native speakers here.

Where we DO lose out is when illegal teachers come to Europe, use all the facilities here (eg subsidised public transport, free healthcare etc.) and contribute not one cent in taxes, along with eroding legal European workers rights.

I often hear this sort of comment from North Americans who are actually genuinely astonished to find out they don�t have the right to work exactly where they want.

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

America excludes us, native european english teachers, from working in the states, so why is it any different?

merlin · Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:43 pm Post subject:

Oh, now come on. Everyone pays VAT - and a hefty 20%+ it is, too.

Now here's how a North American does it legally without paying taxes!
The EU still wants investment from North America - so start a company that provides services. Yes, it's more expensive but what you pay to accountants and lawyers are written off as business expenses (and all your books, paper, pens, cd's, radios, tvs, cars ... you get the picture) you can write all of that stuff off as business expenses and you basically end up paying zero in taxes - legally.

Not sure how long this will last. In the US if you don't make a profit in three years they audit you. An audit would be a real pain in the butt, but doable.

So if you want to live in a European country with draconian visa hurdles check out how to form an Ltd or limited liability company in the country of your choice. You usually have to have like 20,000 USD in the bank to start it up but there are ways around that if you have a savvy lawyer.

Varies from country to country and there's always the risk they'll yank the carpet out from under you with new laws and regulations.

Don't ask me specifics - if you're serious about it hire a lawyer.

Another advanage of this is by providing educational services you can get into things in addition to teaching (proofreading, translation, consulting, etc.) right now I just do teaching and proofreading with mine.

merlin · Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:49 pm Post subject:

Moore · Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 730 Location: Madrid

We pay VAT here in Europe, but the employer also pays for the social security payments of the worker (pension, sickness etc.), and the worker also pays annual tax. We pay a lot more here in tax than in the USA: we also have free health insurance, good unemployment benefits, subsidised education etc. etc.

Basically in Europe we choose to pay more in order to have better lives, therefore any US citizen who works in the EU is ripping off citizens of that country: saying that just paying VAT is enough is just silly.

The attitude of the question - that we are somehow "losing out" here as we don�t have American workers is really quite depressing.

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

Merlin--As an accountant I can tell you that you are not automatically audited if you do not make a profit in three years of operating a single-proprietor small business. The tax law indicates that you must show a profit 3 years out of 5.

People who want to keep fly by night businesses going simply either take 2 years of losses, show a very tiny profit for the 3rd year--or they fold their unsuccessful business after 2 years. (The government cannot force you to keep a losing enterprise going.) Sometimes they operate several of these businesses at the same time--so that when one is losing money another is showing a small profit.

The IRS seldom audits these folks because a proposed audit must first demonstrate potential for recovery of tax revenues--which a low roller taxpayer is unlikely to provide.

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

And what about Australia, New Zealand, Canada, South Africa..?

merlin · Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:12 pm Post subject:

Ah, thanks for the correction moonraven. I'll review the tax laws tonight so as to not deliver any more misleading information.

Moore · Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 730 Location: Madrid

Any teacher who�s properly qualified as a high-school teacher in a subject that�s in demand in International schools in Europe (such as Maths) can easily find a job with visa sponsorship: schools are crying out for such teachers and will arrange all the paperwork.
If it�s just to be a TEFL - type teacher then there are 53.5 million people from the UK and Ireland who are legal and who could do the job perfectly well.

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

No. Of course the EU gains by keeping out as many Americans as possible.

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

I can't say with 100% certainty that the EU is gaining, but it is the US that has lost out. Remember that the EU was conceived to end wars in Europe--but also to combat US hegemony in the geopolitical sphere.

nomadder · Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:25 pm Post subject:

Yes they are unwisely limiting themselves. I wonder how much you'd support the idea of say, Japan suddenly barring teachers from the UK and Ireland. Certainly there are enough other English speakers to fill the jobs there.

If jobs were offered to all English speakers then people wouldn't have to work as illegals and no one would be missing out.

I do believe Europe is the only area in the world where most native English speakers cannot teach English legally. Rolling Eyes

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

At my school, we currently have teachers from only England (not the rest of the UK or from Ireland), the USA, and Canada. No Scots, Irish, Aussies, NZers, etc.

I spoke about this with my director the other day, and encouraged her to look at hiring staff from other locations. This is a school that offers degrees in international relations, and yet we don't seem to be doing a very good job of helping the local students meet people from other countries!

Moore · Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 730 Location: Madrid

quote "Yes they are unwisely limiting themselves. I wonder how much you'd support the idea of say, Japan suddenly barring teachers from the UK and Ireland. Certainly there are enough other English speakers to fill the jobs there. "

...in Japan there are no native English speakers: in Europe there are - this argument is daft - in Japan we compete for jobs on a normal footing with Americans, Ozzies, Kiwis etc. as we should.

As a TELF teacher with no particularly special qualifications I cannot go to America and get a job just like that - it�s normal: there are 300 million Americans who could quite easily do the job.

Americans with specific teaching qualifications that most EU teachers do not have can easily get sponsored. Basic native speaking teachers we have.