|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
ixena
Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 4
|
 Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:49 pm Post subject: Newbie wanting to teach in Taiwan |
 |
|
Hello. I am a newbie to both eslcafe and to the idea of teaching in Taiwan. I would like to get as much information as I can. I do not yet have a Bachelor's (I am hoping to work on that while I'm teaching) and I do not have TEFL certificate. I do have an AA. But I would like to get started really soon (I want to leave in October this year). How would the job prospects be for someone like me? I also may prefer a smaller town, smaller than Taichung, unless this is not recommended for some reason. Also, how are the accommadations? Are they expensive? How about transportation to another city or town if I am living and teaching in a small town? Is it easy enough to get to and from a smaller town? How is shopping - would I have to go to a big town for groceries and personal goods? Any info. would be most helpful. Also, maybe I should add that I am 40 yrs old (I don't know if this a factor in teaching) and am hoping to make a significant career change here.
Thanks.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Xenophobe
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 163
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Legally, you are ineligible to teach here. Could you get a job in a rural area? Likely, as they are desperate and will take just about anybody. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
ixena I think that you should spend a lot more time doing research about coming here. It is clear by your questions that you haven't read much about teaching in Taiwan, and I understand that this was the reason for your post. While specific answers to your specific questions would of course help you, I think that you will find taking the time to read information that is already available will help you a great deal more. You can find pretty much all of the answers you will need both here at Daves and at www.buxiban.com
Just quickly though as someone has already stated you cannot work legally without a degree. Your age will also count against you as you are at the top age range for what most schools want. So this means that you would need to work illegally for a school that is probably unable to get it's choice of teacher, and I don't think that this is a very desirable position to put yourself in.
Last edited by clark.w.griswald on Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crashcity
Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Taiwan
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:12 am Post subject: AA |
|
|
| Your Associate of Arts degree will only be accepted if you have some form of TESOL as well. From what I understand...from the numerous AA ok, AA not ok posts...this may also only be true for certain locations. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I also may prefer a smaller town, smaller than Taichung, unless this is not recommended for some reason. |
Taipei is the best location for uninitiated teachers to cut their teeth as English teachers on Taiwan.
There are plenty average paying jobs that any native speaker can do. If you make a few mistakes chances are you won't get raked over the coals for them in Taipei, like in some of the less developed areas of Taiwan.
Taipei has higher rent but lower transport cost and the MRT or subway is fairly decent.
You need to understand that wages and benefits on Taiwan have been deteriorating and the money teachers were getting paid in the past is simply not here any more.
Please read this.
Link to Success!
Good luck!
A. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ixena
Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 4
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:55 pm Post subject: newbie wanting to teach in Taiwan |
|
|
Thanks for all of your quick responses. To xenophobe, I was wondering if you happen to know anyone teaching in a small town or if you have in the past? I have heard that the smaller towns are more likely to take people (as you stated in your reply).
To Aristotle, I appreciate the info. I would like to try for a smaller area, but I will definately keep in mind that Teipei may be the way I will have to go at first.
Also, to anyone who may have solid info., do they really take time and concern to look at your age? I mean, with age does not also come wisdom and understanding? I'm not sure how 40 got to be old!?
I have also heard that a great deal of people actually work there (and in other countries as well) illegally in the teaching industry because they need people so badly. Any input?
Thanks again.
From ixena |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:00 am Post subject: Re: newbie wanting to teach in Taiwan |
|
|
As I stated above, everything you are asking has already been asked before. You will probably find a lot of beneficial info if you take some time to read through past posts.
| ixena wrote: |
| Also, to anyone who may have solid info., do they really take time and concern to look at your age? I mean, with age does not also come wisdom and understanding? I'm not sure how 40 got to be old!? |
Well I guess that my info could be considered solid as it comes from the experience of over a decade in the industry.
Age in itself is not generally a disqualifying factor, however it does play a part in the decision making processes of the recruitment staff in schools. Most of the teaching work available in Taiwan is within children's schools, and most parents and schools prefer teachers that are in their 20's as they feel that these teachers are most likely to enthuse their kids to participate in classes. Having said that there are some very good kids teachers in their 40's and maybe even older, so age is not a disqualifying factor, but one that will draw the attention of the recruitment officer at the schools to which you apply.
The compounding factor is that you don't have a degree, and in that case age does become a factor that increases your chances of being disqualified. There are pretty well three main things that schools will consider before taking the time to interview you:
1. You must be a native speaker of English.
2. You need to have at least a degree (or it's equivalent)
3. You generally need to be under 35 (whether the school stipulates this or not)
So from you have told us here, you meet one out of the three requirements.
Years ago when there were many more jobs than teachers you would have had a better chance of securing job (even though it would be illegal) than you would now. In the current job market, you are likely to have to look long and hard for a position, and although you will likely find something eventually, it is unlikely to be a very good position either pay or condition wise, and you will be working illegally which will have it's downsides.
| ixena wrote: |
| I have also heard that a great deal of people actually work there (and in other countries as well) illegally in the teaching industry because they need people so badly. Any input? |
I guess that you must be referring to years ago, because this would not be an accurate description of the current market. This is something that has been discussed at some length on this board before.
The fact is that there as many jobs now as there ever has been - probably more. But there are also definitely many more foreign teachers who meet the three requirements mentioned above, and who are in the country looking for teaching work now.
My feeling is that you are likely to be excluded from the decision making process as you don't meet the legal requirements for employment in Taiwan. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ixena
Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 4
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: Teaching in Taiwan |
|
|
| To clard.w.griswald. Thanks for the input. By degree, did you mean a Bachelor's degree or TEFL/TESOL? Does one or the other make more of a difference? And what is their reasoning of one having a Bachelor's degree since it certainly doesn't mean a better ability of doing a job (out of curiosity)? Also, thanks for the reference to the Buxiban.com site. There is a lot of info there and it looks like I may be able to work in other locations around the world with my current degree and after getting a TESOL (which seems to only take a few weeks from what I am finding) until I can go back and finish my Bachelor's. It looks a little bleak and discouraging for me due to lack of degree and over 35. But I was stationed overseas in the AF and have been looking for a way to work overseas again. Teaching sounded good because a person is passing on knowledge which I think is one of the great jobs. Have you worked in other countries or just Taiwan (as you stated you have an extensive background)? Actually, I wish I would have known about these opportunities about 10 years ago - I only found out because of a class that was offered in Denver, CO. Thanks again. Look forward to your reply. From ixena. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:20 am Post subject: Re: Teaching in Taiwan |
|
|
| ixena wrote: |
| By degree, did you mean a Bachelor's degree or TEFL/TESOL? |
I think that you will find that when people refer to a 'degree' in this industry that they are referring to a full university degree from a tertiary institution. Anything less than a full tertiary degree may be referred to as a diploma or certificate. I am not saying that these are strictly exclusive terms, but in the context of teaching English in Asia, I am sure that you will find the above to be true.
| ixena wrote: |
| Does one or the other make more of a difference? |
I am unsure exactly what you mean by this question.
If you are asking if there is a difference between a three to four year Bachelors degree at tertiary level and a TESOL certificate, well of course there is a difference.
| ixena wrote: |
| And what is their reasoning of one having a Bachelor's degree since it certainly doesn't mean a better ability of doing a job (out of curiosity)? |
This is another topic that has been discussed at some detail on sites such as this one.
Personally I don't think that this stipulation is due to reasoning as much as it is to do with minimum criteria. I have not seen anyone trying to suggest that a person with a degree is a better teacher than someone without. I don't believe that this is what it is about. If it were the aim, then I am sure that the government would stipulate that the degree must be in an education discipline.
The requirement of a degree is just one method of establishing minimum criteria. I don't know exactly why they decided upon the requirement of a degree, but it is no doubt to do with marketability. In order to keep the local populace happy, the government needs to be able to justify why a foreigner is being employed to do a job that a local could possibly do. One way of justifying the employment of foreigners for teaching positions is to say that we will only employ foreigners who meet certain minimum requirements, and the posession of a degree is one of these requirements. Personally, I think that is fair, as anyone who really wants to teach here but doesn't have a degree can always get one.
| ixena wrote: |
| Have you worked in other countries or just Taiwan (as you stated you have an extensive background)? |
Maybe I am reading this wrong, and I apologize if I am, but I read it as suggesting that my answer to your question about teaching in Taiwan, which you posted on a board about Taiwan, is somehow invalid if I have only taught in Taiwan. It would seem to me that had my teaching experience been restricted to Taiwan such that the decades of experience that I referred to was only within this market then that would actually be a good thing - not a bad thing. I mean, if in a decade of experience teaching English, nine years were spent in nine different countries in Europe, with the tenth being spent in Taiwan, would that somehow and validity to my comments about Taiwan? It sounds a bit strange to me.
In answer to your question, yes the majority of my experience has been here in Taiwan (hence my answers to question about Taiwan on the Taiwan forum), but I also spent two years teaching in mainland China. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ki
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 475
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Having a degree and coming from "an English speaking country." Are merely government requirements, to teach here legally, and not necessarily required by the school. They are certainly preferred but not necessary. Just like being under 35 is a big preference of schools but not necessarily a requirement. I would probably say that looking like a foreigner (ie being white) would be the leading requirement of schools. Being a native speaker and/or having a degree would depend more on your willingness to work illegally and lie to the parents about your ethnicity. Being young and fairly attractive are preferences schools may be willing to compromise on. Experiences and actual teaching/tesl qualifications probably rate just below here. Of course, each school is different. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Welshguy
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 143
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi,
You will get some sort of job. It may not be the best one around but it will happen. Supply and demand, simple as. You will be winging it in terms of immigration status etc etc but if you dont mind that then give it a shot. If you work illegally you need to spend out on a visa run every month, if you work legally you get a tax bill every month. Financially you may be worse of legally.
Generally speaking they do go for younger people as first picks but I knew of guys older than me (I was 39 when I landed there) picking up kindy work and stuff. Also while age seemed to be against me in that aspect of the job (though I did get a kindy job)when it came to the essential privates it was a positive attribute. My students were Phd's, people from the legislative Yuan and merchant banker types, I couldnt imaging any of them sitting down for very long with some teenager. Horses for courses I guess.
Mr Griswald is right when he asserts that the pay and benefits that made Taiwan a good-ish gig are receeding. I can remember thinking after my first month, I wish I was here ten years ago.
Basically suck it and see. I've posted before that some of the people I encountered 'teaching' in Taiwan amazed me. No qualifications whatsoever, barely competent spoken english, laughable written english etc etc etc, they were all still working though!!!!!!
The full range of establishments is on the island from the absolute pits to teacher heaven. The full range of teachers is also on the island.........
Good luck to you.
W |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wonder
Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 109
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: newbie wanting to teach in Taiwan |
|
|
| clark.w.griswald wrote: |
| As I stated above, everything you are asking has already been asked before. You will probably find a lot of beneficial info if you take some time to read through past posts. |
Take it easy on the guy.
| clark.w.griswald wrote: |
1. You must be a native speaker of English.
2. You need to have at least a degree (or it's equivalent)
3. You generally need to be under 35 (whether the school stipulates this or not) |
I'm more than a little surprised at the above statements, especially coming from an otherwise well informed contributor to this board. But #2 in the above list couldn't be further off the mark. The government of Taiwan does not require ESL teachers to have a degree of any kind. A two-year college diploma and a TESOL certificate will let you teach legally, get you an ARC and all the marbles, so to speak. Anything else, such as teaching experience will be a big help with the bushiban in question. It is the individual schools that decide on the degree/non-degree issue, not the Taiwan approving body.
I believe this board or forumosa discussed this issue ad-nauseum. But ask around and there are plenty of diploma holders teaching legally in Taiwan, especially in Taipei. It's actually quite funny to find out that many bushiban owners do not know this crucial fact. They go under the assumption that a degree is the only thing that will pass. I have proved at least two schools wrong in this issue. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:08 am Post subject: Re: newbie wanting to teach in Taiwan |
|
|
| Wonder wrote: |
| clark.w.griswald wrote: |
| As I stated above, everything you are asking has already been asked before. You will probably find a lot of beneficial info if you take some time to read through past posts. |
Take it easy on the guy. |
I did. There are a lot of posts here that ask the exact same question that someone has just asked. I am not talking about posts made last year, and in some cases they are even on the first page of this board. I am merely pointing out that if people read messages on the board before posting they will probably find an answer to their question without posting, and may also learn something else along the way.
I don't think that I am the only regular on message boards that points out the 'Search' function to newcomers.
| Wonder wrote: |
| clark.w.griswald wrote: |
1. You must be a native speaker of English.
2. You need to have at least a degree (or it's equivalent)
3. You generally need to be under 35 (whether the school stipulates this or not) |
I'm more than a little surprised at the above statements, especially coming from an otherwise well informed contributor to this board. But #2 in the above list couldn't be further off the mark. The government of Taiwan does not require ESL teachers to have a degree of any kind. A two-year college diploma and a TESOL certificate will let you teach legally, get you an ARC and all the marbles, so to speak. |
Wonder, I am just wondering what you think I meant by 'or it's equivalent'? As you say, the matter of the diploma plus TESOL has been discussed on this board many times, and in fact has been discussed in this very thread, so obviously 'or it's equivalent' refers to other qualifications that may be considered equal to a degree!
I avoid recommending that people come here with a diploma plus TESOL for a number of reasons:
1. Most schools will not consider hiring a teacher who doesn't have at least a degree. Sometimes it is because they don't know that it is legal to do so. Sometimes they know that it is possible, but don't want the extra hassle. Sometimes they just want to stick with full degree holders as these are more marketable.
2. There is no reliable information as to what types of diplomas are acceptible, and which diploma issuing institutions are recognized by the Taiwan government.
3. There is no reliable information as to which TESOL certifications are accepted by the government of Taiwan and which ones aren't.
That's too much uncertainty for me and I would certainly not say to anyone "Got a diploma plus TESOL? Sure come on over, jobs are a dime a dozen." In fact I would go so far as to say that I think it somewhat irresponsible to suggest this is a possibility unless you are able to provide information about which diplomas and TESOL certificates are acceptible and which ones aren't.
So, although I have spoken of the fact that you can secure legal work in Taiwan with those qualifications, I am certainly not going to publicize it too much as it seems like a risk to me. Get a full degree and then you will know for sure that you are employable at any school that wants to hire you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ixena
Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 4
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:39 am Post subject: Teaching in Taiwan |
|
|
| Hello, everyone. That was a lot of good information. It's amazing how many responses come through on this site, it's very well done. Anyhow, just for reference, I am a woman. On that note, not to sound stereotyping but only going by what I have seen on some of these sites, it sounds as though it may actually be easier for a woman to get a teaching job as schools apparently prefer women to work with kids. Kids, by the way, would probably not be my first choice, but it would seem you should take a job like this at first for background and experience. To Ki (meaning energy or force?), I have heard the same about looking like a foreigner (basically white); and I actually got that from a Chinese guy in a class about China-he said my chances of getting a job there would be very good based on my appearance alone (and they did not think I looked too old. Whew). To Welshguy (of Wales? If so, pretty country), it's nice to know I'm not the only "elder" out there who wants to make a difference in their life (and others). I was glad to hear someone else is taking a leap, I don't feel so alone. What did you mean, though, about "essential privates is a positive attribute"? And to Clark, you are reading way too much into things. My question asking if you had taught in other countries was just that - a question, of curiosity. I asked because I am curious if people have taught elsewhere and what the conditions are like in those places. About the TESOL, I was only wondering if an AA and a TESOL would look as good as a Bachelor's. Thanks for the info from everyone. By the way, has anyone here taught in South America or Europe? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Welshguy
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 143
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hi,
Yes, of Wales.
Essential privates: Private tuition outside of normal working time for cash in hand. You get to meet some interesting and of course not so interesting Taiwanese that way. A good group of private students is a great help, financially and in other ways. Ideally your private takes you to a lovely restaurant where you chew the fat for a couple of hours in English and then pays the bill and gives you forty or fifty quid for the privilege. Great fun and nice work if you can get it. Most of these people will do something reasonably well and will see the language as a necessary tool of their particular trade.
I used to coach international bankers in presentation skills in english and 'cos I can write a bit, spun off into editing and writing documents for all sorts of stuff. I wrote MBA application essays for junior govt officials for example at 600 quid a pop and this isn't exactly rocket science.
I think when it comes to that kind of client group they just would not consider spending that kind of cash on some spotty twenty something so it is one area where being a bit older can be a plus and not a minus.
When you come to Taiwan its about where you can make the best fit for yourself. You will get a kindy/bushiban job of some sort or another I am sure and using that as a base see where you can go from there. There is a place for you.
Cheers.
W |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
