Job Discussion Forums

[edwinagirl]

It's interesting to listen to the hand-wringing about EF on this forum. Well, you won't need to do it any longer, because EF are going online. They plan to deliver most of their training in China on the web, so they won't need (many) teachers. They'll still need some to teach kids, but the plan is to take the adults market online and avoid all those pesky teachers. This has already started in Beijing and Shanghai - they're selling their online courses rather than classroom instruction.

EF have gotten themselves into such as mess in China that this was inevitable. The franchising policy was an unmitigated disaster and now they realize they will never make money with the traditional approach, traitorous franchisees, and swathes of bottom-of-the-barrel teachers.

How an organization with this history could ever have considered that a good approach to the China market, I will never know. But hey, now it's time for the big new strategy. This could be the beginning of the end for EF if it doesn't work.

To be fair, the Englishtown model has been successful lately, so they may make a fist of it.

In a sense this is the same approach that Wall Street have taken - use technology as much as possible to substitute for teachers. The only problem is that in both cases the programs are actually pretty useless. (I know a lot of the peole who worked on producing the EF materials, and I saw what they were doing ... enough said. )

[dafc]

^ Maybe just a tad sensationalist. I'd be pretty sure that if EF, or anyone else for that matter, were still using teachers for kids courses then there would still be plenty of demand for teachers.

[virago]

First of all I don't think it's correct. You can NEVER replace a live teacher.

Second, EF sent me a contract to do corporate work in Beijing they offered 4 hours a week but they had plenty of work available.

Third ( and it relates to the first point). E-Learning is a very hot issue at the moment. Every man and his dog are trying to do something. There is one called, www.globalenglish.com which is quite successful. E-Learning will never replace face-to-face contact BUT it can certainly help making the learning alot more interactive, fun and easier too. I think the successful schools who combine both will be on a winner.

Internet technology is at a level now that it can combine to create some excellent materials which will push against the traditional schools teaching methods.

Just like everybody said that the internet will be the death of the shop, well, this has never happened.

[tw]

It wasn't very long ago when people were saying that computers would replace people, resulting in massive unemployment. We all know that hasn't been the case. People are still needed to maintain and operate the computers and automating machinaries.

I don't doubt that EF will develop some fancy high-tech interactive online lessons, but no matter how good a computer program is, it still requires a human mind instructing its moves and decion-making process. This is where a good EFL teacher is needed to assist in the development of these online lessons. Also, they aren't very common yet, but I have seen ads for online EFL teachers. If anything, I suspect more and more teachers would move from a classroom setting into a private one-on-one setting, where he/she can devote full attention to the learning needs of one individual student. The contact hours may be a lot shorter than in a classroom setting, but the student will at least have the advantage of a cyberspace home tutor.

[edwinagirl]

I'm not predicting how the industry will look with these comments. Obviously, the net will play a part in the future, but no-one knows how the online/offline issue will pan out.

My point is that EF struggled for some time to come up with a new strategy and this is it. They are not attempting to change the nature of language learning in China, they just want to find a way to make money. The best they came up with was to reduce the cost of rents, teachers, admin, and the rest, by pushing the online model. Clearly they don't want to be dependent on an unruly and unpredictable population of FTs to drive their China expansion, so their solution is to use the net and reduce the need for teachers.

This may be run separately from the franchise business. The schools could obviously provice a database of bodies to whom EF could market their online programs, so there is a synergy. Once again, it'll be interesting.

[virago]

OK I understand.

I think that EF had to do something anyway in e-learning anyway otherwise it would be left behind in the race to modernise their product. Anyway it all depends on IF the customers want this new product!

The only people using e-learning in asia are professionals who do not have the time (but the money) to learn in a classroom every week. Is this the EF target market? I don't know the market well enough to say.

[deezy]

As an EF DoS this is the first I've heard! We do have adult courses which include optional computer learning to supplement the course, but what I've found is that the students come to the class, but rarely use the computer element of the course, even when they have paid separately for it. They say they simply don't have the time, plus they prefer face to face teaching.

I'd love to know where you got your information..... do tell!

And we're busy doing corporate courses, and adult courses so doubt if this will 'catch on' in the near future. Not easy to do a role-play of a negotiation, or a meeting, or practice presentation skills, with a computer - I know computers are good but surely not that clever yet?

[edwinagirl]

A student who went to the EF HQ in Shanghai told me directly that she was sold the online version while the sales girl avoided the classroom training. Most of the EF schools appear to be in the dark about this. Is this just bad management or not? I don't know. Clearly the HQ has one policy while the fancshises have another, but that could be deliberate.

[englishgibson]

Edwinagirl, the EF sales staff is in charge of training the students how to use the E-learning and yes the EF employees are avoiding the trainings due to their poor knowledge of it. The EF centers’ employee turnover has skyrocketed, so their often-new very young, unqualified and inexperienced staff knows less than the EF students.

Deezy, it was not supposed to be “optional” in all EF centers in China. Every center and every adult course was to have the E-learning (Blended Learning) in China. Yes, it has become “optional” due to lack of interest from the Investors and the students. Depending on where the EF center is in China, the E-learning product might be used fully or not, to have created another EF Double Standard issue to the highly Double Standard or shall I say “little standard” EF franchise.

The EF E-learning (Blended Learning as EF has called it) is a fairly new EF academic product that combines contact classroom teaching/learning with “on line learning”. It is (or was) supposed to combine 38-40 academic hours in the classroom and 40 academic hours out of the classroom (at student’s home or at school’s computer). That is per EF course that has originally been done with 48 academic hours. So, the actual contact teaching hours (of the teacher) are to be reduced. Edwinagirl might have a point there that the need for teachers shall decrease as well then, however I doubt that EF has currently a plan to completely replace their teachers by computers. To expand on that E-learning EF product, only the “end of stage” courses are to yield an actual EF certificate. The students’ exams are done on line (without the teacher) and the teacher is to grade the students’ on line activities. The “on line learning” is supposed to blend in with the classroom contact hours. The teacher/product/course is supposed to increase the level of interaction in the classroom. The courses are shorter, but more expensive. If the students do not go on line during the course or do not coordinate/pace timely their activities according to the teacher’s classroom lessons, the product is fairly ineffective. The EF Head Office has been “racking their brains” about how to get this product in their market and how to convince the “weary” EF Investors in China.
By the way, the “traditional EF course books (adults) were supposed to be replaced by new ones to match the E-learning on line components. When I was EF DOS we were asked to write/create units to the new EF course books and we were told we’d get (I think) US $ 1,000 for one Englishtown approved unit. I guess there was some employee shortage in EF’s Englishtown.

The E-learning (Blended Learning as a new EF product) was introduced first at the Investors, Center Managers and Directors of Studies EF English First Shanghai’s Conference in March 2004. It caused disgraceful fights among the Investors there and most of the Directors of Studies sitting at the Academic Operations Managers’ Mark Rendell’s presentation were asked by their EF employers to leave the room in front of Chinese National TV cameras. I was one of them having to leave/being asked to leave. As embarrassing as it was, the EF Head Office hastily misjudged the EF Investors as well as it turned out later the market in China.

Directors of Studies were put in the middle of the “Soap Opera” and they were instructed by the EF Head Office to persuade the Center Managers/Investors to start selling the product by April 2004 (right away). There was a need for high amount of computers in the EF centers, which some lacked. Consequently, the Investors were expected to invest more money in. Every EF center’s provider was supposed to upgrade the center’s computer system in order to accommodate the new E-learning EF product. The E-learning course prices were up by 200-300 RMB per course at least. Students had to buy a card (key) to access the E-learning and their course on line. The EF Head Office sold the “cards” (keys) to the individual EF centers for I think 120 RMB per card. I mentioned on another EF thread the problems with the system that the EF Head Office did not anticipate as well as I mentioned that the students stopped coming. AT the EF where I was DOS in 2004, the courses’ sales went down sharply and rapidly, and by June 2004 we had almost no new adult (product only for adults, but planned for kids later too) courses to start there. So, we stopped the E-learning indefinitely.

Cheers and beers

[deezy]

Yep, you're right englishgibson, and frankly we rarely use the on-line component now, as it's simply not used by the students and we are trying to give the students what they want, rather than what we are told they want! I wasn't in China when it was introduced, I arrived two months later, and (along with the new High Flyer books) as a new school we were instructed to use these.

Guess we're going against the edicts of Shanghai but we prefer to teach our students what they want.... thus we have good student retention. So... here it's 'optional'... what are they going to do.... sack us all? Actually,I think the online element is quite good, but if the students are not going to use it,...well you can take a horse to water....etc etc.

[Zero Hero]

Is that the "Scandanavian" approach, 'Edwinagirl'?

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?p=261770&highlight=#261770

[edwinagirl]

Zero,

Er, what is your (snotty little) point? That you are a Great Poet? (Again.) A man of Letters? A Genius (who can spell, too)? We already know that. The feigned literary mystique, the the pompous, over-written meanderings, the italics for emphasis, won't hurt anyone, because there's no danger of anyone actually finishing your posts. But I do recognize bilge when I see it. So what, in God's name, is your point, relative to the topic?

[englishgibson]

[sigmoid]

EF may not need teachers any more, but did teachers ever need EF?

[Chris_Crossley]