Job Discussion Forums

TaoyuanSteve · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 1028 Location: Taoyuan

I selected unchanged. I see the market as kind of stagnated. However, there may be a kind of defacto decline in play in the market for top end, experienced teachers. I guess what I mean is the average is likely unchanged, but the average is the run of the mill 600 per hour job. I think the kind of niche market schools that would have, in the past, paid more for an experienced teacher are being pushed out by increased competition and market penetration by the chains. Chains tend to have teaching systems such that anybody can teach at their schools with minimal training. Because of this, they won't pay for experience or talent. They simply have no need to do so. I worked for a company where the hourly rate for a FOB teacher was only about 70 nt less than one with 5+ years of experience. Needless to say, the school's experienced staff were not content with that. In short, I think the wages and number of jobs at the top end have been/ and are being reduced while the average run of the mill salaries are staying the same. The end result is most people are earning about the same, give or take 5 or 10k per month. It's ok for short termers, but problematic for careerists who would like to advance.

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

Nice looking table there Aristotle. What is the source of the table so that we can all check on what the purpose of the table is? And who produced the table for what reason?

It appears from the text in the table that the statistics are for the manufacturing industry. As that relates to Taiwan this would largely mean that it relates to the wages of local Taiwan workers, which as we all know are very different from the wages of foreign teachers.

OK, so we are all aware that your point is that in your opinion wages are dropping. Well why not provide evidence of that within the foreign teacher market? The fact is that the average wage ten years ago was lower than it is now. The wages from three years ago are slightly lower than they are today. One source on this is the historical data can be seen over at buxiban.com which you can then compare with current job ads for positions available today. This is a pretty easy comparison to make, and it is obviously going to be representative than a chart of unknown origin that seems to refer to local workers in the manufacturing industry.

So if you are going to continue to suggest that wages are down, you are going to have to supply some proof of this.

wix · Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 250 Location: Earth

I believe this analysis by Michael Turton (link below) is quite astute and well reasoned. It basically comes down to market forces and supply and demand. Also whether you consider pay rates to be rising depends on the time frame you are talking about. Teachers may be earning a few NT$'s more than they did two or three years ago, but things are nowhere near as good as they were ten or more years ago. Exchange rates also come into the arguement when you consider the longer time frame.

Why is teacher pay not budging?

junkmail · Joined: 19 Dec 2004 Posts: 377

I guess you'd have to try and work out whether or not the wage has risen or fallen in 'real terms'. You have to consider inflation, the price of accommodation etc..

Also, as wix said you have to look at exchange rates because many FTs work to save money in their home currencies.

Aristotle · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

Chris Smith · Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 86

I must admit to not being very smart when it comes to wages and money in general (I'm an English teacher after all...), but I would say my feeling is that wages are lower when you look at the bottom line.

I can't support my opinion with fact, it's just a general feeling. To me it seems logical that wages would stagnate in this economy. Local workers must be feeling the pinch because of the cheap and ready labour across the water. That in turn affects the disposable income they would put towards their (child's) additional education. Add to that that the English teaching market is vastly oversubscribed with big and small buxibans and you can see the problem.

For the average buxiban, costs are always kept to the absolute minimum and there's generally very little excess meat to trim. What meat there is would probably be in the most expensive portion of these overheads, namely wages. Think of a medium to large school with X number of teachers. Instead of giving them a NT$20 raise per hour this year... just don't. Think of the savings a school could make. Then multiply this situation by 7 or 8 times for each school participating in such action ( schools do work together to help each other), and you have a stagnation of wages, equalling a drop in real terms.

Just an opinion.

Chris

TaoyuanSteve · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 1028 Location: Taoyuan

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

Although I do not agree that wages have dropped I do agree that it is not as easy to make the big bucks that it was once easy to make.

The numbers speak for themselves, and as I have been saying all along, the hourly rates that teachers get paid have increased over the years. although admittedly not in leaps and bounds. This is a fact that can be proven statistically.

It seems to me that foreign teachers are already at the peak of their earning potential and that quite honestly most schools could not afford to pay teachers any more than they currently do. I am not so sure that this has to do with the economy as it does have to do with the fact that foreign teacher wages are probably the biggest single expense a school has. This has always been the case whether the economy is good or bad.

The factor that these statistics don't show so clearly is the fact that many teachers are being offered less hours at their schools due to increased competition among schools. This means that many teachers now need to supplement their income by taking a second job or picking up privates.

Ki · Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 475

One area I would say has been in decline is in benefits to salaried teachers. Things like holiday pay, sick pay, typhoon days, etc have been cut back so much that they are almost non-existant. So maybe 'wages' haven't so much declined as 'salaries' have. I cannot speak for more than a couple of years though.

If you wish to compare with advertised positions then you absolutely must use the minimum figure on a variable range. Never do schools actually offer any more than the minimum without a LOT of excess overtime.

Aristotle · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan

Taiwan's misery index high as prices go up and wages go down