Job Discussion Forums

[Chris_Crossley]

[stillnosheep]

[Chris_Crossley]

[stillnosheep]

Great dogs! But can be a little nippy if not trained well when young. Avoid Collie/Retriever crosses. Although in theory you could end up with a dog with the family-friendliness of a Retriever and the brains of a Collie all too often you get a mutt with the instincts of a Collie and the brains of a Retriever. And they chew everything in sight!

[matttheboy]

[grahamb]

England's post-Ashes dinner menu:
Humble pie with hard cheese, followed by sour grapes.

[Chris_Crossley]

[merlin]

[Stephen Jones]

1) Freedom of movement for labour has been a fundamental part of the treaty of Rome. It never was so for NAFTA.

2) Joining the EU does not mean that it will become harder for a non EU member to get a visa in theory. But in practice it will for these two linked reasons.
a) Whereas before an employer had to prove that the position he filled with his foreign hire could not be done by a national of his country, he now has to prove it can't be done by a national of the EC, which is more difficult.
b) The Brit or Irish guy won't require any paperwork; the non-EU guy will.

3) In fact until recently many countries in the EU applied indirect restrictive practices that made it impossible for non-nationals to fill many positions. This particulary affected government employment which is what most educational jobs are. This was not fixed until the early 90s. This is the reason you won't find many British or Irish teaching in French or German classrooms, and not because they don't need them, as Roger erroneously asserted.

[counpk39]

...is that we are often seeing the argument through our own American perceptions. Employment discrimination based on national origin is against the US law. That is basic Title 7 of the Civil Rights act of 64. We also have the Immigration Reform and Control act of 86 which states (among other things), "Employers who impose citizenship requirements or give preferences to U.S. citizens in hiring or employment opportunities also may violate IRCA." So as long as an immigrant or foreign national has the paperwork, they have all the labor rights of a citizen.

The EU places its emphasis on ethnic origin. Discrimination by ethnic origin against a citizen is against the law. According to the Racial Equality Directive and the Employment Equality Directive, citizens have "a common minimum level of protection against discrimination." If you are not a citizen of an EU country, you will have to assume the risks of de jure discrimination and no labor rights.

I am optimistic that with time and more international cooperation, perhaps all of the borders which keep all of humanity separated will come down.

Almost forgot to ad...as a post script, our profession tends to favor those of us who speak English as a first language--maybe we should call for an end of this form of discrimination as well.

[stillnosheep]

Apples and oranges I'm afraid.

The US　law says that one may be in violation of US law if one's employment practices discriminate against legal US residents on the basis iof country of origin or citizenship.

The EU　law mentions common protection against discrimination on the basis of country of EU　citizenship (NOT ethnic origin) for all EU　citizens. It doers not mention non EU citizens as it is not relevant to them.

In any case the OP was referring to US citizens who are NOT legally resident in the EU and have NO rights to work there.　THe US law relates to foreign citizens who already have the right to live and work in the US.

If a US citizen can satisfy the requirements to obtain permission to work in the EU (eg is suitably qualified for a job for which there are no suitably qualified local (EU)　candidates) then s/he can get the job. If an EU　citizen can satisfy the requirements to obtain permission to work in the US, (eg is suitably qualified for a job for which there are no suitably qualified local (US)　candidates) then s/he can get the job.

The mistake that some people are making is in comparing the EU to a continent (such as North America). Europe is a continent. The EU is a political and economic union, which is more like a collection of states coming together to form one confederation.

If the EU is viewed (for employment purposes) rather as being one nation (such as the US) then any sense of unfairness as to why US nationals find it just as hard to obtain visas to teach English in the EU as EU citizens do to obtain visas to teach English in the US simply disappears.

[moonraven]

We have now accumulated 7 pages of posts about a matter which is completely out of the control of persons posting on this board.

What was the point?

[counpk39]

[Chasgul]

Moonraven - b1tching makes a lot of people feel better. And remember that a problem shared is a problem doubled...

[merlin]