Job Discussion Forums

[cj750]

Even if my advice is to try and work it out so that it is agreeable..it would be hard to work at a facility and know that a much better job is yours for the taking....I wouldnt worry bout "our reps" or anyones "old bone to pick" ( I know you can to this board for thoughts and not sermons)..with in the business culture of China a contract is fluid...and although not a certainty..it is likely that any school or business would desolve any contract that was not in their favor...still should find a way to work out your departure...and if that doesnt work then a choice must be made "shall you stay or shall you go"..if you decide to go..you can contact the second school and fill them in on the first school...let the ethics of China do the work for you......likely they can tell you how to get out of the first contract or they will tell you that it doesnt matter...and come on down.
If one school is in one provence and the 2nd is in the other...it may be just a matter of picking up your bags and moving..remember that the actions of the previous teacher does affect the way a school or FAO deals with the next...these are my thoughts when it comes to Laugage School and Uni's..if it is a International School...that represents itself at job fairs and such ..the results of you breaking a contract may well be a unofficial blackball

[boxcarwilly]

Take the job you really want for whatever reason. You will be a better teacher and your students will be better off when you are doing what you like or love. Don't look back.
I had a contract to go to Kumming and changed my mind and came to Jilin for much much better money. The first school could have paid more but wanted to put more cash into their own pockets. Their choice. Most every teacher is very replacable in the eyes of the Chinese employers. Applying your Western standards here in China is a waste of time in most circumstances. The Chinese are not interested in learning by your example and I personally sleep very well at night with my nice and well deserved, big paycheck. I am paid what I am worth and that means I get to save for those days when it will rain.

[2 over lee]

I simply do not understand this. It is not indentured labour, I see no problem with giving notice for the period stipulated in your contract, be that 1, 2 or 3 months. My current job is wise enough to enforce a six month notice period, thus protecting themselves from financial loss. It's about time schools in China learned to make proper contracts.

If you give notice, and lose your benefits such as aifare, you are free to leave---you should not feel guilty.

[Roger]

[Zero Hero]

What's wrong, 'Roger', are you having another bad hair day?

For your information, China now purports to be a (form of) market economy, and one feature of market economies is internal movement of labour. Employers choose employees and employees choose employers.

You write, "You are not "WORTH" that much more, and perhaps you are even worthless", and then you ask "Who are you to decide how much you are worth in a foreign place?"

As I understand it, however (and please do correct me if I am wrong on this detail), but the original poster hasn't decided how much he or she is worth, but, rather, a potential employer has by making an offer. Also, we could simply ask who you are to suggest that the poster may be worthless in a foreign place.

As I said, if the first employer happened to come across someone who offered to do the same work for a third of what the original poster was originally offered, they would not even so much as bat an eyelid at dishonouring the contract with him.

I actually feel FTs in China have a duty to sell their labour to the highest bidder so as to play their part in raising salaries in China, and in making the field of English language teaching more professional.

[clark.w.griswald]

I think that the OP presented his case poorly in his earlier posts and this may have got people offside. There was some suggestion in his (or her) earlier posts that he was thinking of not only doing a runner to accept a higher paying position, but also considering running with money from the school in his pockets. This gave the impression that this person was not acting responsibly, no doubt knew this, and was coming to this board for justification of his or her intended actions.

There is no justification in this case to do a runner. And there is no justification in any case to take money that is not yours.

I would certainly agree that the teacher has the right to negotiate a way out of the contract, or hand in his or her notice and pay any penalties stipulated in the contract for breach. At the end of the day it is not good for anyone if a teacher feels trapped into a contract, but everyone must be responsible in their actions.

There seem to be some comments that suggest that it is ok to break the contract without notice as schools do it. This seems like a very weak attempt at justifying the unjustifiable to me. Where does it end? By that logic then after this teacher does a runner the school should have the right to say 'The last teacher ripped us off, so we are going to rip off the new teacher.'

Personally, I think that we all need to be savvy, but have good morals. Sure you might get taken for a ride sometimes, but at least you can sleep well at night. Most importantly though, we should really support the good schools and shun the bad as this is the only way that we are going to create change in this industry.

[cj750]

The Op didnt really state a case as he was just asking two questions..and no ..his worth was not one of them...neither was his morals...it was his liability...and to this respect...no one can answer his question completely as no one can tell what the length the school will go to preserve the contract...

[Roger]

Uncle Hero,
I respect you as few do, you know that! Maybe the OP is not normally one of your devoted readers!

While I agree on the political front with you on many issues here in China I believe it is in MY OWN INTEREST as well as in ANYONE's to maintain a modicum of respectability and accept responsibility! You are, however, clearly taking sides with those among us who act as immorally as the most immoral CHinese opportunists!
You are simply WRONG in claiming we have the RIGHT to move into China and secure ourselves a position that pays. We get hosted and sponsored by our employers, which is an act of enormous responsibility and with legal implications.
You are mistaken in your claim that we should have the same right to move as the Chinese peasants now do. To be given a job at a publicly-owned school or a private training centre puts us at a huge advantage over those same Chinese peasants that now enjoy the right to seek jobs in urban areas. Teaching jobs are per definition white-collar jobs, and white collar jobs usually are better remunerated than blue-collaar ones; there is therefore no need to pile extra privileges onto the existing ones for FTs.
Having said this, I am also in favour of decent salaries and even more interested in decent treatment. To be afforded decent treatment hinges on MUTUAL RESPECT; it is us who first have to earn respect before we can demand things here.
Respect has nothing to do with money! No matter how little anyone gets paid it will always be considerably more than what two thirds of the Chinese masses earn. Their offspring have the right to be taught by respectable teachers who come to China with a mind of lifting them out of poverty. Maybe the word IDEALISM is old-fashioned here, but it still holds water!
The OP asked for ADVICE; my advice stands!

[2 over lee]

Roger....yes, but why are you comparing FT's with peasants and not with other ex-pats and Chinese white-collar workers? In saying that, the penalties Chinese white-collar workers face for breaking contract, or indeed even having a sick day, are RATHER severe. If the Chinese want to stop FT's moving around they need to tighten up on the work visa situation. It is a big step to sponser someone to come to your country, but too often they let people work on L or F visas, encouraging precariously insecure FT's to be as ruthless as they are.

[Midlothian Mapleheart]

Edited to remove offensive content.

Middy

[bubblebubble]

i was once in the exact same situation. i talked to my lawyer friend and this was his advice:

1. check your contract
2. give notice (if possible)
3. "come on, people walk away from their contracts all the time, that's life!"

..and i did.... but i don't regret doing it

[benno]

i agree with dear old roger on this one, sorry zero hero

do a runner? what the *beep*....its not very honourable......a bit low really...are you afraid of them...why not just tell them the truth.....get out of the contract....return the money..maybe pay a fine or whatever....then go to your new job......
easy
next question

pretty similar to that nigerian guy who signed for man united but later signed for chelsea
looks like he wont be playing football for a while!!!

be a man dont be a shi t

and enough with the racist crap..."all chinese are crooks so its ok for me to screw them too!"

[KES]

I fail to see how FTs salaries, or professional standing, will be improved by FTs who negotiate a contract, strike an agreement, and then bail out for supposedly greener pastures.

[wigan4]

Seems like a no-brainer to me. You tell them that for personal reasons you can't honor the contract and pay whatever fees and penalties apply.

Are you trying to get out of the contract or out of the penalties? There's a legitimate way to do the one but not the other, it seems to me.

[Free-as-a-bird55]

Go for the new job!! See my post 'Chinese - Dishonoured Contract'!! The Chinese have no qualms about dishonouring a Contract, so in China do as the Chinese do. Like you I'm had innumerable experiences of being ill-treated! [b]Get a better offer - go for it!![/b] Just be sure first that it does exist in the format and with the benefits offered however. Tell the now-Contracted employer you have been made a better offer and have ALREADY returned all money they've given you.