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Vince
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.
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 Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| I've never been into trendy fashion, so I don't know how it is in the US. But in Japan, I got the impression people preen to look like the latest cool personality. I'm sure there are people who get creative with their clothes, but I doubt the average Japanese person is trying to be unique or inventive. I don't want to think about how many times I've seen a young Japanese person be impressed by someone's style and say, "mane suru" (I'm going to copy him/her). |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Lister100 wrote:
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| In Canada you can find entire communities of artists and in Japan you'll probably find more local artists and also communities in cities too. |
I'm from the Left Coast of Canada where arts/cutting edge cultural communities are generally localized, and it took me some time to perceive the countercultural, "artsy" communities in Kanto. But yes, they are there. Just a little more diffused, further spread afield than the communities I saw in western Canada. I'm fortunate to have met people in various communities in Kanto region.
6810, I must concede you've got a point here:
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There are just as my hang-ups and prudes in Japan as anywhere else, directly proportionate to the class you inhabit.
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Sure, there are lots of conservatively dressed people of all ages in Japan. I guess what would be more accurate is to say that, for the most part, Japanese people are meticulous about their appearances, perhaps moreso than Canadians or Americans. |
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unsung
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Stosskraft wrote: |
Another Myth that was quickly shattered, was the easy of meeting Japanese women. I have never had problems meeting women back home, and I have dated models in China and Thailand (no, not those "models"  ) yet I have had very little luck in meeting women here, even just as friends. Maybe if I looked more like a cellphone, my success rate would increase. 
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It's funny. As far as dating goes, some people can get with the groove and others just can't. Some people are made for Japan. They walk in and it's like a performer stepping onto the stage. Their bad points too (like drinking too much and smoking) seem to fit right into the grand scheme.
For better or for worse, what do J-girls like? - tall, young, ENGLISH ONLY (or cute Japanese, small amount), hmmmmmmm..anything else..? |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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I shake my head at the guys who bought the myth about Japanese girls falling all over them. Earth girls may be easy, but not stupid. 
But seriously, I meet as many winner foreign guys as loser foreign guys with Japanese wives/girlfriends. Same goes with Japanese guy/Japanese girl couples. |
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SEndrigo
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 437
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Lister,
hahaha, how true indeed! It's funny the number of foreign guys who brag about their "hot" girlfriends, who are not only not hot, but not even average when compared to the super babes you see here in Tokyo.
I agree with you, for whatever reason, most of the hot babes here seem to be with Japanese guys...maybe cos they know they can get any guy they want, but why not get a rich bloke who speaks their language and who will support their Louis Vuitton shopping habit !
Foreign guys just won't put up with that ! And most of them can't speak any Japanese ! |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:28 am Post subject: |
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Lister said
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| Many of the Japanese girls I see holding hands with foreigners are not the top picks. |
Wow, that's like, soooo deep and empathetic.
SEndrigo is maybe on to something here when he says about foreign guys
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| And most of them can't speak any Japanese ! |
Ohmigod, like, condescend to actually have a conversation with a woman? Wait! She might demonstrate she has a personality and brains. It's too scary to comprehend!
Okay, I'll tone down the sarcasm now...Perhaps you two haven't had the chance to meet highly intelligent, interesting, deep and attractive women, llike my friends and students, in Japan. I don't hang out with the empty-headed designer handbag types, so I can't relate.
Btw, my little black book is guarded by temple demons, so don't bother asking for phone numbers. |
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Lister100
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 106
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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That's funny Liz you sound like the type to be carrying a designer handbag.
Some people just come running out of the woodwork at any opportunity to scrap it out. Call me shallow for noticing if a woman is attractive, but you'll have a hard time not hitting people with that stick.
I was speaking from certain experiences I've had with friends(whom I believe to be shallow and still short-changing themselves through their fetish...a little old thing called irony) and other general observations. Trust me, in the case of the strangers on the street I would rather it be that they have some deep connection to their Japanese girlfriend, but in the case of my friends its pretty safe to say its not the case.
At no point was I singling anyone out, objectifying women or trivializing the importance of personality. Naturally these things are important, but they go hand in hand with physical appeal. The added difficulties of communication only undermines the impact of personality. If anything a person that can't communicate will be relying on physical attraction a lot more to get things started, unless they're a hell of a conversationalist with their eyes. So you'd expect that they would see the girls their objectifying in their true form. My two friends in question don't. We're not talking average either, sometimes its close to nasty. Maybe they were like this in their home countries, I don't know?
And you know what, I don't care if people have fetishes or use shallow methods in finding their perfect mate. To each their own, but its still funny to see someone go on about the girls they pick up in clubs only to discover that the so called 'supermodel' ain't so super. Maybe irony doesn't travel so well in the 'left coast'?
I don't know if this answers your post well because of its incoherent nature. Maybe I wasn't clear in my post and that's the problem, but rather than assuming the worst why not ask for me to explain rather than going for my balls.
Last edited by Lister100 on Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:37 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Lister100
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 106
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Hey SEndrigo,
Happy you liked that. It gets pretty hard to say anything in here that doesn't read like the Sunday news. They'll invent reasons to take offense if you don't give them any. Anyway, thanks for the feedback. Hope the Tokyo party is treating you well. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Lister100 said
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| Or maybe you can still be an airhead without being fashionable. |
Oh dear. I expected a rebuttal but not an insult. You'll note that at no time did I insult your intelligence. I was merely gently pointing out the superficial way you treated on attraction.
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| Some people just come running out of the woodwork at any opportunity to scrap it out. |
Come on now, you set yourself up. With the type of comments you made, of course you'll raise the ire of any intelligent man or woman reading that post.
I was gentle in my fun-poking. You appear to have missed the humour there.
I didn't want to be too didactic in my previous post, so I omitted the cliched moralizing.
Well, fools see what they want to see, especially when they have, as you say, a fetish for a particular feature. Perhaps, because of this fetish, these guys overlook the finer points in their dates. Your friends sound shalow to see only the cover of the book and not the content.
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| I don't know if this answers your post well because of its incoherent nature. Maybe I wasn't clear in my post and that's the problem, but rather than assuming the worst why not ask for me to explain rather than going for my balls. |
Thank you for condescending to explain to me what you meant, but it won't be necessary, as it is quite clear that you are as shallow as your friends. You also are far too sensitive to my satirical post. Maybe you should avoid posting things that draw attention to your balls. Perhaps the women on this forum are not interested in your balls after the previous content.  |
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Lister100
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 106
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe you just need to learn what humour is and stop acting like you're in school with your kids.
If you had picked up on the light hearted nature of my initial post we wouldn't be bothering with this. If you're so intelligent you would realize that calling a person shallow twice (especially when you don't know him) is insulting and likely to bring reprisals no matter how clever you think you're being.
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Thread has been reopened. I would remind people:
No personal insults
Keep to the topic
Please avoid objectifying women (Japanese or foreign), they are not pieces of steak. |
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rai
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 119
Location: Osaka
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| If we objectify women, do we get censored? |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| rai wrote: |
| If we objectify women, do we get censored? |
I have kept this thread open, even though I dont personally agree with the direction this thread was going.
I locked the thread over personal insults that were made and to give people time to cool down.
Im asking people to use a little bit of common sense decency and respect for people. Talk about other people as you yourself would want to be talked about, not just "Japanese women are this.....foreign women are that" as though they are cattle.
On a personal note, my wife is Japanese and I dont appreciate women like her being ranked based on her superficial looks or intelligence which is exactly what these guys are doing. I dont appreciate being considered a "winner" or a "loser" because of my choice of partner either.
For those who dont know there was a thread on here about 2 years ago talking about the (largely superficial) differences between Japanese women and foreign women and it just ended up a slanging match based on stereotypes and generalisation with a lot of misogyny directed against foreign women becuase they 'weren't more like Japanese women'. It went on for 8 pages before it was finally deleted.
I will do the same if it carries on like this. |
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SEndrigo
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 437
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| Lister100 wrote: |
Hey SEndrigo,
Happy you liked that. It gets pretty hard to say anything in here that doesn't read like the Sunday news. They'll invent reasons to take offense if you don't give them any. Anyway, thanks for the feedback. Hope the Tokyo party is treating you well. |
No worries Lister,
I understood 100 percent what you were talking about, you weren't trying to put anyone down.
We're just talking about a guy's point of view about women....here is the bottom line: everyone (but especially blokes) cares about looks. If they say they don't, they're lying, plain and simple.
To PAULH: we are not objectifying anyone, nor have we personally attacked anyone on this message board. Why is it so bad or taboo to talk about the fact that many foreign guys talk rubbish and tell lies about their so-called "success" in Japan?
We're just telling the truth....we are doing everyone a favour because then we'll have less NOVA thugs coming over here expecting a quick shag with a supermodel. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| SEndrigo wrote: |
To PAULH: we are not objectifying anyone, nor have we personally attacked anyone on this message board. Why is it so bad or taboo to talk about the fact that many foreign guys talk rubbish and tell lies about their so-called "success" in Japan?
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Men also look at Penthouse and Playboy and read the Forums. It doesnt mean one can publish photos of them on the web for all to see. Its treating women as objects as "body parts" for men to drool and lust over in public. This is a public forum, not a strip joint.
Whether you do ogle over women is your business, but discussing it on a public forum where women post here and is likely to cause offence is something else.Tokyo Liz was offended, I was offended, and if someone makes a complaint generally speaking I will act on it.
FWIW
Perhaps you care to tell me what your definition of a "hot babe" is if you are not talking about looks and body parts? Your argument about chatting them up while not being able to speak the language is not that convincing.
Why are other guys girlfriends not hot according to your subjective definition while your friends ones are? Do you walk around with a scoreboard ranking Japanese women one to ten?
I will also add that Japanese men here outnumber foreigner studs about 100,000 to 1 so the chances of a young japanese woman having a Japanese partner or boyfriend are pretty overwhelming. People like you are not even in the ballpark if you cant even speak the language. Its only a very small minority that would consider having a foreign or non-Japanese boyfriend or find them remotely attractive.
As for attacking someone I had to delete a comment by Lister who made an uncalled-for remark that was definitely flamebait.
Last night I was trying to decide whether to delete this last page or not but i thought i would see how things will develop. |
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