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teacha
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 186
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 Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| well, I was under the impression, as I said that; If a school fires you for "breaking the contract" then you automatically are deemed to have broken a legal contract within Taiwan automatically requiring you to leave the nation and be banned for at least 1 year. Effective within 2 weeks of their notifying the Gov't. I heard this from several schools. They may be bluffing. Are they? |
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teacha
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:37 am Post subject: |
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check this out:
2. Contracts are worthless in Taiwan. Perfectly good waste of material better used for toilet paper. If the boss don't like you, they can cancel your ARC and have you out of the country in 7 days.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=1258 |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:55 am Post subject: |
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If you have a look through my posts on this forum you will see that I don't have a problem with people who make mistakes or people who don't know. I also don't have a problem with people posting their opinions provided that they support these opinions with some type of fact or legitimate reason.
I do however have a problem with people who post their opinions here as being fact when these are not facts.
| teacha wrote: |
| well, I was under the impression, as I said that; If a school fires you for "breaking the contract" then you automatically are deemed to have broken a legal contract within Taiwan automatically requiring you to leave the nation and be banned for at least 1 year. Effective within 2 weeks of their notifying the Gov't. I heard this from several schools. They may be bluffing. Are they? |
Had you initially posted that it was your understanding or impression that this was the case then I would merely have corrected you. You chose however to state it as if it was some sort of fact when it isn't. That is my problem with the posts that you make.
Foreign teachers have the right to break their employment contract in Taiwan at any time, but they must do so responsibly by following either the terms of breach outlined in their contract of employment, or those outlined by employment services law.
There is no obligation for teachers to leave the country after breaking a contract. Nor is there any regulation which prevents teachers who break their contracts from returning for a year. Nor is there any regulation requiring two weeks notification of the government. So I am unsure where you got this impression.
The fact is that teachers will only face sanctions if they break an employment contract without appropriate notice. Appropriate notice would be deemed to be the notice period you agreed to in your contract of employment, or the notice requirement stated under Employment Law (30 days), whichever is the less.
To my knowledge there is no scope for teachers to decide for themselves that the circumstances they face in their employment justify them to do a runner without notice. If teachers are facing particularly difficult circumstances in their employment then they have an obligation to notify the CLA for assistance.
I do not believe you that several schools have told you this. In an earlier point you claimed that several teachers had told you something that you now agree to be incorrect. It is beyond me how you could possibly continue to be misled by heresay of others when you can find the facts out by researching yourself. A lot of what you have regurgitated here is the sort of nonsense that Aristotle brings to this board. I suggest that you are the perfect example of why Aristotle's post are so dangerous in their misinformation.
| teacha wrote: |
check this out:
2. Contracts are worthless in Taiwan. Perfectly good waste of material better used for toilet paper. If the boss don't like you, they can cancel your ARC and have you out of the country in 7 days.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=1258 |
The post that you refer to is the opinion of one user of this forum and he is entitled to his opinion but that does not mean that what he says is fact. I have a degree of respect for that particular poster, but it is worth mentioning that he chose to work in Taiwan illegally for a period of time prior to becoming a legal teacher. In fact he used to be an advocate of working here illegally due to the freedom it once offered. That does not invalidate his opinion but does suggest a resentment to conforming to regulatory control.
I don't know about what experiences he has had in attempting to enforce contracts, but I speak from experience when I say that contracts are enforceable in Taiwan and are recognized by the relevant authorities. It is true that Chinese do not generally consider the written word to be a fixed position on any matter, but when push comes to shove the law does respect contract law. Just to reitterate. I know this from personal experience.
Last edited by clark.w.griswald on Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:30 am; edited 2 times in total |
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teacha
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:10 am Post subject: |
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I do however have a problem with people who post their opinions here as being fact when these are not facts.
Had you initially posted that it was your understanding or impression that this was the case then I would merely have corrected you. You chose however to state it as if it was some sort of fact when it isn't. That is my problem with the posts that you make.
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OK, I'm learning the rules here, and the ettiquitte.... I'll be more meek.
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I do not believe you that several schools have told you this. In an earlier point you claimed that several teachers had told you something that you now agree to be incorrect. It is beyond me how you could possibly continue to be misled by heresay of others when you can find the facts out by researching yourself. A lot of what you have regurgitated here is the sort of nonsense that Aristotle brings to this board. I suggest that you are the perfect example of why Aristotle's post are so dangerous in their misinformation.
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Possibly.
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I don't know about what experiences he has had in attempting to enforce contracts, but I speak from experience when I say that contracts are enforceable in Taiwan and are recognized by the relevant authorities. It is true that Chinese do not generally consider the written word to be a fixed position on any matter, but when push comes to shove the law does respect contract law. Just to reitterate. I know this from personal experience.[/quote]
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SO the contract time OVER RIDES the time stated by labor law for giving notice to quit? And what about the point that if they don't like you they can claim you had a private, said something bad about the school to their friend, etc. These are all common ways to endd the contract and then turn you in. Are you saying that if they end the contract and accuse you of something that you are free to lollygag around the country with a cancelled ARC and then simply get another one after a month of the process and looking or maybe two months or maybe 3. However long it takes to get an offer and consumate it? I am so not doing the quote thing right...... |
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Chris Smith
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| SO the contract time OVER RIDES the time stated by labor law for giving notice to quit? And what about the point that if they don't like you they can claim you had a private, said something bad about the school to their friend, etc. These are all common ways to endd the contract and then turn you in. Are you saying that if they end the contract and accuse you of something that you are free to lollygag around the country with a cancelled ARC and then simply get another one after a month of the process and looking or maybe two months or maybe 3. |
teacha. It costs schools a great deal of money to hire a foreign teacher here. That's why good schools will put in a lot of effort asking questions and delving into your employment history. This annoys some applicants, but the truth is that schools do this to avoid making costly mistakes for themselves. Once they've signed you they are going to try their best to make sure you work out.
As you have seen from the contract you posted earlier, there are lots of (relatively) small and understandable stipulations. These upset you at the beginning, but the school's goal is to communicate what they expect from you. A school will not just send you packing without a very valid reason. Breaking the contract would be a good reason if it's serious enough. If you do make a "mistake" you'll normally be given another chance to see if you learned from it.
If you sign with a school full time, providing they don't insist on you working for them exclusively, it's possible to sign with another school as well. Having two schools on your ARC should give you more stability because if one of them needs to let you go the other one still holds your ARC. Having said that, I wouldn't recommend this route because schools that don't insist on exclusivity aren't making such a committment to you, nor you to them. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:52 am Post subject: |
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Mate can you do everyone a big favor and actually do some reading about this topic. Everything you have said and asked has already been stated many times before. Why is it that we need to be your personal mentors on all of this? Sure, if something has not been answered before, or something is confusing then this is the place to come, but the things you ask are all basic things.
| teacha wrote: |
| SO the contract time OVER RIDES the time stated by labor law for giving notice to quit? |
Of course not. You yourself have pointed out the fact that civil contracts cannot override legislation and I have previously agreed with you on that. Why would you now ask this question? We have already been over this. The answer to this very question is contained in my earlier post as well as about three other posts that I have made on this forum in recent weeks.
| teacha wrote: |
| And what about the point that if they don't like you they can claim you had a private, said something bad about the school to their friend, etc. |
And what about the point that if you don't like them then you can leave. It works both ways. Sure some people could argue that we need to give them 30 days notice while they only need to give us seven. Sure I accept that. But I also put it to you that the schools have a lot more responsibility to you as the sponsor of your visa, than you have to the school. So in my mind it seems fair.
If you are a good teacher and you are doing your job then the school quite simply won't want to get rid of you. If you are lazy, tardy, uncooperative, or just suck at teaching then really why should the school be obliged to keep you on. The argument that schools can get rid of you for the littlest reason doesn't sit well with me as it seems obvious to me that while the reason that they give may be a small thing you can be sure that there is a bigger reason behind that, and I suspect that any teacher in that situation would be fully aware of what those reasons are even if they didn't disclose these to the rest of us.
It's just common sense really. Buxibans are businesses. If you are an asset to their company then they will keep you on for as long as you want to be there. If you are a liability then they will let you go at the end of your contract. If you are worse than a liability then they might seek to get rid of you sooner.
Why not stop worrying about all the possible inequities in the system and concentrate on being the best employee that you can. Surely as an ex-business owner yourself you should be able to understand all of this!
| teacha wrote: |
| These are all common ways to endd the contract and then turn you in. |
They are not common at all. Don't exaggerate. By your own admission you have limited experience here in Taiwan. How many legal employers have you had here? And how many of these have done this to you?
| teacha wrote: |
| Are you saying that if they end the contract and accuse you of something that you are free to lollygag around the country with a cancelled ARC and then simply get another one after a month of the process and looking or maybe two months or maybe 3. However long it takes to get an offer and consumate it? I am so not doing the quote thing right...... |
What do you think?  |
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teacha
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:58 am Post subject: |
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I misread chris' quote yes he is correct with the new labor law as I understand it. I apologize.
Last edited by teacha on Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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teacha
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| teacha wrote: |
| SO the contract time OVER RIDES the time stated by labor law for giving notice to quit? |
Of course not. You yourself have pointed out the fact that civil contracts cannot override legislation and I have previously agreed with you on that. Why would you now ask this question? We have already been over this. The answer to this very question is contained in my earlier post as well as about three other posts that I have made on this forum in recent weeks.[/quote]
BECAUSE, you said: "The fact is that teachers will only face sanctions if they break an employment contract without appropriate notice. Appropriate notice would be deemed to be the notice period you agreed to in your contract of employment, or the notice requirement stated under Employment Law (30 days), whichever is the less."
SEE....That is retarded. Whichever is less? What's the law? If I give 2 weeks notice and they turn me in for breaking the law am I screwed? Or does the law say: "Oh well, the contract said two weeks, so forget the law, they turned you in wrongfully which has never happened in Taiwan, despite the fact that you went to work across the street with all their PRICELESS TRAINING under your belt! We will fine the school for making a false complaint against you because we understand that you were following the contract which is fine with us." I don't think so. In fact I think some of the stipulations in contracts are there to purposely give schools the upper hand if things go awrye and they have multiple chances to nip you in the bud. Call me Aristotle but I've seen the way they play.
| teacha wrote: |
And what about the point that if they don't like you they can claim you had a private, said something bad about the school to their friend, etc. |
And what about the point that if you don't like them then you can leave. It works both ways. Sure some people could argue that we need to give them 30 days notice while they only need to give us seven. Sure I accept that. But I also put it to you that the schools have a lot more responsibility to you as the sponsor of your visa, than you have to the school. So in my mind it seems fair.[/quote]
SO you are advocating breaking the law because you feel it is FAIR to do that? This is very disturbing to those people on this board that are driven to break the law and give foreign teacher bad names and especially comming from you, someone that supports following the CLA's laws. This is not something I understand. You also have not addressed the issue I have brought up several times now; The fact they they are supposedly able to turn you in for breaking a legal contract and as a foreigner you are expelled and banned from working. Are you saying you never heard that or that is simply not a law?
If you are a good teacher and you are doing your job then the school quite simply won't want to get rid of you. [/quote]
Are you serious? I can't believe you just wrote this. How many teachers have come here asking for advice because the school was BEING UNREASONABLE OR BROKE THE CONTRACT? Since when did the become honorable?
It's just common sense really. Buxibans are businesses. If you are an asset to their company then they will keep you on for as long as you want to be there. If you are a liability then they will let you go at the end of your contract. If you are worse than a liability then they might seek to get rid of you sooner.[/quote]
Or if a better candidate comes along ot they put an ad up for new teachers and there is no new enrollment to justify it? Or if they decide that you will not be bullied into non teaching hour BS like all the sudden they need curriculum rewritten, or they need tests written because they feel you owe it to them for the priveledge of working there? This never happened? Nobody ever posted anything about a school being nutty or adding terms or tasks that were not in the agreement or weening your hours down due to their over estimation of enrollment only to decide they couldn't justify your being there.....and got someone else who didn't need an ARC to fill your shoes? These things don't go on? School owners honor the terms of contracts?
Why not stop worrying about all the possible inequities in the system and concentrate on being the best employee that you can. [/quote]
Because the Buxiban Owners care nothing about you only the $ and they tend to find teachers expendible even if an ARC was paid for. Because the inequities are a REALITY and the RULE rather than the Exception. Because it is our duty to be aware of the games of "face" and lies and manipulation that go hand in hand with employment as a foreign teacher. Ever met a teacher that was told 'Now you must go to the local HS to teach for some hours, or the other branch, or my brother in law's school in the nexxt town?' I have !
| teacha wrote: |
| These are all common ways to endd the contract and then turn you in. |
They are not common at all. Don't exaggerate. By your own admission you have limited experience here in Taiwan. How many legal employers have you had here? And how many of these have done this to you?[/quote]
Again, a pissing contest. I have know teachers that got the shaft because of various BS things. By the way, I also maintain a messageboard for english teachers in Taiwan.
| teacha wrote: |
| Are you saying that if they end the contract and accuse you of something that you are free to lollygag around the country with a cancelled ARC and then simply get another one after a month of the process and looking or maybe two months or maybe 3. However long it takes to get an offer and consumate it? I am so not doing the quote thing right...... |
What do you think? [/quote][/quote]
I THINK THE GOV'T GIVES YOU MARCHING PAPERS because you were not given a release letter form the 1st school. I think the new multiple school law allegedly allows you to just add another after you a hard to get release letter from the original. Oh wait that was the previous labor law on ARC's, the new one supposedly says you don't need one as long as your school doesn't turn you in for breaking the contract....But wait/...what do they list the reason for not having you on the books anymore as....irreconcilable differences? I don't think so, bad for the face of the institution. I think I would love to see the most recent draft of the labor law on this topic but don't know where to find it.
Last edited by teacha on Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:07 am; edited 3 times in total |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:04 am Post subject: |
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I find that Chris's comments are accurate and up to date.
| teacha wrote: |
| WRONG, ever since late spring when they changed the # of schools on the ARC rule the trend has been for full time to put a clause in forbidding outside work or tutoring. |
Chris is not wrong at all. He is right.
I can't really comment as to whether there has been a real increase in this stipulation in contracts here.
What I do know is that many schools have always inlcuded clauses in their contracts that prohibit work for other schools. This has been the case for many years. Traditionally it was based upon the fact that any work outside of the employer who was sponsoring your visa was illegal and as your sponsor the school was legally responsible for your illegal activities.
Nowadays such clauses are more about protecting their own interests, as is their right. If you don't like the contract terms then don't sign that contract but instead find a contract that is more agreeable to you.
| teacha wrote: |
| In the case of the one I posted, it even said up to a year or a yr and a half after the end of the contract you couldn't teach in the county, if I'm not mistaken, well something ot that effect. |
Exclusion clauses are legal, but only legally enforceable if they are reasonable. A clause attempting to prevent you from working in the country would not be enforceable as it is unreasonable. The employer can put it in the contract if they like but it doesn't mean anything as it is not legally enforceable.
| teacha wrote: |
| It's the new norm and totally against a teacher's rights. I hate that. |
What do you base this upon? I don't agree that it is the case but would be interested in hearing your argument for this. |
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teacha
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| teacha wrote: |
| It's the new norm and totally against a teacher's rights. I hate that. |
What do you base this upon? I don't agree that it is the case but would be interested in hearing your argument for this.[/quote]
I keep getting contracts with it written in and my friends tell me it's now a popular trend.
Last edited by teacha on Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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teacha
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:13 am Post subject: |
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[quote="clark.w.griswald"]I find that Chris's comments are accurate and up to date.
| teacha wrote: |
| WRONG, ever since late spring when they changed the # of schools on the ARC rule the trend has been for full time to put a clause in forbidding outside work or tutoring. |
Chris is not wrong at all. He is right.
I made a mistake reading his entry, we all agree he is right there, my bad!.
Exclusion clauses are legal, but only legally enforceable if they are reasonable. A clause attempting to prevent you from working in the country would not be enforceable as it is unreasonable. The employer can put it in the contract if they like but it doesn't mean anything as it is not legally enforceable.
Like leaving WHICHEVER IS SOONER? So we can't enforce our decision to leave the contract earlier than 30 days, honoring the terms.... if it that condition is in the contract YET it is not 30 days? Wait a second, that's not good advice. It may seem "fair" but is it prudent? Does it open us to being the law breaker or them? Them saying it may mean nothing BUT us doing it does mean something no? They have us by the gonads if we break the law and they catch us doing it. DOn't forget we run to the competition and the parents see us around town..Bad for face of Bushiban, we must not embarass, we must be removed from market. |
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Chris Smith
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:41 am Post subject: |
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teacha. I think you should review the posts you have made in this thread and count the number of times you've had to reformulate your opinion and approach.
You are not here in Taiwan, yet you are trying to look for problems at every twist and turn. I can tell you now that to be successful here you have to be very accepting of a different culture and its way of doing things. That extends to the way laws are perceived and implemented as well as the many different social customs you would encounter.
You are a very emotional person and this comes out in your posts. You range from being extremely angry, to sheepishness, to almost euphoric. In Taiwan and much of the East your emotional swings would be interpreted in a very negative way, if indeed you behave as you write. If you are writing from home, you are surrounded by the familiar, and the familiar is not at all threatening (though it may be boring). Moving here will be a stressful experience for you (as it is for most of us in the beginning), and I would guess that your emotions will get the better of you. People who are not emotionally stable do not do well here and sometimes get themselves in a whole lot of trouble. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| teacha wrote: |
BECAUSE, you said: "The fact is that teachers will only face sanctions if they break an employment contract without appropriate notice. Appropriate notice would be deemed to be the notice period you agreed to in your contract of employment, or the notice requirement stated under Employment Law (30 days), whichever is the less."
SEE....That is retarded. Whichever is less? What's the law? |
And if you had read my other posts on this subject as I had suggested you should then you would understand why you are wrong.
The law states a requirement of 30 days, but the CLA who administers the law accepts contract terms less than this provided that both parties agree and that both parties abide by these terms. It is not a case of overriding the law, it doesn't. It is simply a case of if every one is happy then why rock the boat. Seems sensible to me.
I mentioned the lesser as some contracts may state a notice requirements greater than 30 days, or no notice requirement at all. In those cases the parties would need to fall back on the 30 day limit set under the law.
Pretty simple really, and if you took the time to read up about it you would save yourself from looking silly.
| teacha wrote: |
| If I give 2 weeks notice and they turn me in for breaking the law am I screwed? Or does the law say: 'Oh well, the contract said two weeks, so forget the law, they turned you in wrongfully which has never happened in Taiwan, despite the fact that you went to work across the street with all their PRICELESS TRAINING under your belt!" We will fine the school for making a false complaint against you because we understand that you were following the contract which is fine with us.' I don't think so. |
Chill out man! All this negative talk makes me wonder whether you wouldn't be best off just staying at home then you wouldn't need to worry about any of this.
The answer is simple. If you satisfy the terms of your contract then you are in the clear!
| teacha wrote: |
| In fact I think some of the stipulations in contracts are there to purposely give schools the upper hand if things go awrye and they ave multiple chances to nip you in the bud. Call me Aristotle but I've seen the way they play. |
And I've seen the way that you jump to conclusions, blurt things out without thinking, fail to understand situation before you express your opinion, and fail to attempt to improve your knowledge before taking a high ground. You seem like your own worst enemy and I don't doubt that you have seen the worst from schools as it certainly seems to me that you no doubt paint them into corners.
Be reasonable and you will be treated reasonably. Accuse people and suggest that they are acting dishonestly and you will certainly find that they won't be fighting to keep you on staff. That I guarantee you.
As to contracts being written for schools, well to a certain degree I agree with you and it makes perfect sense. They are the ones that stand to lose the most. They are the ones who are taking a risk hiring you. They are the ones that actually have very little protection against you. Think about it for a minute.
The worst situation a foreign teacher is likely to face is getting the boot without notice and not getting paid a months wage. I mean that's the absolute worst that a school do (short of perjuring themselves and accusing you of illegal activity.)
Now, assume the worst for the school. The teacher who is sponsored by the school does property damage to the school and/or injures staff or students. Not only does the school have to cover the loss of the teacher, but has to cover the costs of the loss of business, the fines levied by the government, the costs of your incarceration and deportation, the costs of repairs to the property you have damaged, the costs of medical costs to any injuries caused, the costs of any law suit initiated by injured parties, a loss of business from the bad reputation etc.
These are extreme examples of course, but hopefully they give you an idea as to why schools need to protect themselves while foreign teachers really require very little protection. We have protection under the law no matter what the contract does or doesn't say. So all we need from a contract is an outline of what the school will pay and when. That's about it.
| teacha wrote: |
| SO you are advocating breaking the law because you feel it is FAIR to do that? This is very disturbing to those people on this board that are driven to break the law and give foreign teacher bad names and especially comming from you, someone that supports following the CLA's laws. This is not something I understand. |
I honestly do not understand what you are saying here.
Please explain to me where I have supported the breaking of the law and I will answer. I don't believe that I have but welcome you to point this out to me.
I am not avoiding your question, I just don't understand what you are talking about.
| teacha wrote: |
| You also have not addressed the issue I have brought up several times now; The fact they they are supposedly able to turn you in for breaking a legal contract and as a foreigner you are expelled and banned from working. Are you saying you never heard that or that is simply not a law? |
I have already addressed this issue.
What leads you to believe that teachers can be 'expelled and banned from working' as a result of breaking a contract? Where did you get this idea? What cases are you basing this upon?
I have stated that according to the CLA the only teachers who get blacklisted are the ones who fail to give appropriate notice. I am quite familiar with the case of a teacher who was blacklisted recently, and he was blacklisted for this very reason.
What cases can you refer to of teachers who have been blacklisted?
| teacha wrote: |
| clark wrote: |
| If you are a good teacher and you are doing your job then the school quite simply won't want to get rid of you. |
Are you serious? I can't believe you just wrote this. How many teachers have come here asking for advice because the school was BEING UNREASONABLE OR BROKE THE CONTRACT? Since when did the become honorable? |
If you want to take their cases at face value and just believe them because they are foreigners so must be right, and the schools are Chinese so must be wrong then feel free.
I on the other hand prefer to look at the cases. Yes there are cases of unjust dismissals. I have never stated that there are not. But there are far more cases of reasonable grounds for dismissal, and just because someone who comes to this forum doesn't tell the second side to the story doesn't mean that there isn't one.
I have investigated many cases on behalf of teachers and I have personally helped many teachers over the years with advice and on the ground assistance. I can only think of one or maybe two cases where the teacher was faultless. In every other case the teacher had been less than perfect, even though the teacher may not have openly admitted that.
Teacha, explain to me please why a school would get rid of a perfectly good teacher?
| teacha wrote: |
| Or if a better candidate comes along ot they put an ad up for new teachers and there is no new enrollment to justify it? |
Yeah right. Like that happens every day. Once again you are stretching for the minor possibilities. Can I say that this never happens? No. But I can say for sure that it almost never happens.
The reason is as Chris has alluded to earlier. The school makes a committment to teachers whether they like it or not. The biggest single complaint that you will get from students is that the teachers change too often. To replace a teacher without cause would be cutting their noses off despite their faces. It just doesn't happen in legal employment. There is also the paper work issue and no school wants to go through that more than they have to.
| teacha wrote: |
| Or if they decide that you will not be bullied into non teaching hour BS like all the sudden they need curriculum rewritten, or they need tests written because they feel you owe it to them for the priveledge of working there? This never happened? |
Clearly exceptions from the rule. I too could think of numerous other quirky exceptions but they wouldn't really help anyone.
What is likely during the course of your employment in Taiwan is that your employer will ask you to do something that wasn't necessarily contained in the contract. It is your choice how you handle this and refusal won't automatically mean that you get the boot. It is the way that you refuse that matters, as well as your performance to date.
You strike me as a highly stressed individual. I suspect that you are the sort (I've worked with plenty before) who flies off the handle at a moments notice, talks down to staff, and let's all the little things from outside the school culminate in a stance that you take with your school. None of this is conducive to a good work environment and I wouldn't tolerate it if I were your employer.
| teacha wrote: |
| obody ever posted anything about a school being nutty or adding terms or tasks that were not in the agreement or weening your hours down due to their over estimation of enrollment only to decide they couldn't justify your being there |
Not unheard of of course. It is path for the course. If you are aware that these things can happen, and they bother you so much, then why are you considering putting yourself back into that situation? Doesn't make any sense to me.
I've lived in China and Taiwan and China is far worse in all of these regards.
| teacha wrote: |
| ecause the Buxiban Owners care nothing about you only the $ and they tend to find teachers expendible even if an ARC was paid for. |
This is one of the biggest mistakes that foreign teachers make in my opinion.
Forget about the fact that the buxiban is making money. Forget about how much money you think they are making. That is not your job to worry about that. They are taking the risks and they deserve the rewards. If you want to earn the rewards then open your own school. If you don't want to open your own school then just do your job.
You are right that buxibans want to make money. They are businesses afterall. You were in business before, are you suggesting that you ran your business to lose money? The fact that they want to make money works in your favor if you are a good teacher. That is what I was saying before. Make yourself an asset to your school and you will be indispensible. Make yourself a pain in the bum and you will be out the door.
| teacha wrote: |
| Because the inequities are a REALITY and the RULE rather than the Exception. Because it is our duty to be aware of the games of "face" and lies and manipulation that go hand in hand with employment as a foreign teacher. |
What you say is most certainly not the rule!
| teacha wrote: |
| Again, a pissing contest. I have know teachers that got the shaft because of various BS things. By the way, I also maintain a messageboard for english teachers in Taiwan. |
I think that we have all known teachers that have gotten shafted. I know people back home who have gotten shafted from jobs too. It happens. In most cases it happens to the dispensible teachers, the ones who are uncooperative, unpopular with students, lazy or tardy. It very, very rarely happens to teachers of any value and even when it does these teachers find a new position elsewhere that appreciates them. If you are finding that the problem is systematic for you then I suggest that you take a hard look at yourself and try to work out why it happens to you!
I can only imagine what your messageboard must be like. A minefield of misinformation and the dregs of the teaching world complaining and carrying on. What a laugh!
| teacha wrote: |
| I THINK THE GOV'T GIVES YOU MARCHING PAPERS because you were not given a release letter form the 1st school. |
Release letters are a thing of the past. They haven't been required here for a couple of years now. This certainly indicates that your information is out of date.
| teacha wrote: |
| I think the new multiple school law allegedly allows you to just add another after you a hard to get release letter from the original. Oh wait that was the previous labor law on ARC's, the new one supposedly says you don't need one as long as your school doesn't turn you in for breaking the contract....But wait/...what do they list the reason for not having you on the books anymore as....irreconcilable differences? I don't think so, bad for the face of the institution. |
\
I have already addressed all of this. If you want to keep on believing this to be the case when it isn't then feel free. Knock yourself out.
| teacha wrote: |
| teacha wrote: |
| It's the new norm and totally against a teacher's rights. I hate that. |
I keep getting contracts with it written in and my friends tell me it's now a popular trend. |
I don't agree that it is the norm, but what I really meant was, How is it against teacher's right?
| teacha wrote: |
| Like leaving WHICHEVER IS SOONER? So we can't enforce our decision to leave the contract earlier than 30 days, honoring the terms.... if it that condition is in the contract YET it is not 30 days? |
I don't really understand what you wrote but I will try to answer anyway.
You can leave after giving the notice outlined in your contract.
If the notice outlined in your contract is longer than the 30 days notice stipulated under the law then you could exercise your right to leave after thirty days but you would best put this in your resignation letter and contact the CLA.
If there is no notice period in your contract then you could abide by the legislation.
It's really that simple.
| teacha wrote: |
| Wait a second, that's not good advice. It may seem "fair" but is it prudent? Does it open us to being the law breaker or them? Them saying it may mean nothing BUT us doing it does mean something no? They have us by the gonads if we break the law and they catch us doing it. DOn't forget we run to the competition and the parents see us around town..Bad for face of Bushiban, we must not embarass, we must be removed from market. |
So don't break the law. Give notice as you are required to do under your contract or the law as outlined above and you don't need to care what the school says, does, or thinks. |
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teacha
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Very helpfull post, you win, I'm tired. |
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Chris Smith
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:20 am Post subject: |
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And I've seen the way that you jump to conclusions, blurt things out without thinking, fail to understand situation before you express your opinion, and fail to attempt to improve your knowledge before taking a high ground. You seem like your own worst enemy and I don't doubt that you have seen the worst from schools as it certainly seems to me that you no doubt paint them into corners.
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I couldn't agree more with this.
teacha, I think you need to address this side of your personality before making any decisions to travel and work in another country. It's not worth the stress or potential financial problems you'd face by doing it. Get yourself a job at home and work things out by trial and error there. If you lose the job, at least you're in your own country and can get another one. Trial and error... |
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