Job Discussion Forums

simon19812005 · Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 33

Has anyone had real experience running from (or ditching) an illegal contract?

I'm looking for "what happens after the fact"

Xie Xie Khe Woe I Ni Men

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

Okay, I'm going to tolerate this thread.... For a while, anyway. I've scooped it out of the moderator's bucket and dumped it back into the forum.... For now.

I PMed the OP why he thought this topic should be re-opened after I locked the last one... He claims that he is looking for legitimate answers to his questions. I don't have the time or patience to investigate everyone's motives for posting or whether or not they are trolling...

SO,

If you can answer without personal insults, accusations or rhetoric, fine. If you think this thread is just a trolling attempt, please don't respond at all... It's that easy. Let the thread die a natural death.

If not, start trading insults, and watch how fast I lock or delete this thread.

The Great Wall of Whiner · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 4946 Location: Blabbing

Why do you want to do a runner?

cj750 · Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 3081 Location: Beijing

That is a wide question and would need some additonal info..just to guess..the truth is no one know...and jail time is a laugh...

The extent to which a school will go is usually based on vengence for leaving a post and not on necessity of procedures...the truth is ..no one know is a contract is legal or not until they go to court ..
By that time you have your answer..but really there is enough info on this board to find your answer...

bearcanada · Joined: 04 Sep 2005 Posts: 312 Location: Calgary, Canada

Dear Simon;

I haven't been in your position of wanting to free myself from what you refer to as an 'illegal' contract, but there may be a better way of looking at this.

All of the contracts I have seen (so far) are so badly written that they are not likely enforceable. Moreover, if the school has already breached the contract this action would normally render the entire contract void. And that means you are already 'free' of it.

In real terms, this should mean that you don't have to 'run' from anything. Instead, you just quit. You inform the school that since they have violated the contract by reneging on their commitments, you are no longer bound by it either and are leaving.

The only practical difference between these positions is that now you do it in the daylight with your head high instead of sneaking around in the dark wondering what might happen to you.

Also, in a circumstance like this, a legal 'opinion' from others (or at least non-Chinese lawyers) has a value to you similar to that of any other kind of opinion.

If by chance you have a valid contract that has not been breached by the school, but you are unhappy for some other reason, you really should discuss the matter with the school. They won't like it, but they are human and will understand. Maybe you can find a way to satisfy both and have both save face. If not, you may be best advised to keep your word as you expect others to do. In this latter context, running out during the night is an act that should be beneath us.

Regards

Girl Scout · Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Posts: 525 Location: Inbetween worlds

Do your own research and stop asking us to hold your hand. Type the word "runner" in on the search function. Search only the China job related index. All the information you have been asking about is there including post about personal experiences.

simon19812005 · Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 33

beautiful response mr bear of canada
girl scout, searching the words runner, etc... were the first things I did (duh).

anyways, the only reason why i call the contract illegal (and thus void) is because the school has not bothered to grant me a work visa. I assume this means they are not a certified school (as such, any contract they sign with teachers is void (since it's not legit). That's my understanding of the situation.

Having known this, are there any consequences for ditching this shetbag.

Some of you keep on warning me of jail time, fines, lawyers and worst case scenarios - but really - is that worth discussing (considering the other side really doesn't have a case against me in law).

If I am upront with them, they may decide to postpone my pay (or otherwise f with me in some manner). However, If i get what i want from them, then disappear, I'll at least have what i wanted and be gone by the time they wake up from thier afternoon napping. Plus, I doubt they'll want me to leave (they may try to block me). Why would I want them in my way?

By the way, I know I'm not the only one working on an L visa. Who else works on an L visa and wants to ditch the operation?

COWBOY PETE - you son of a gun - you post, but don't respond? Come on man, I need to know more about your 6 runs, please, pretty please, with msg on top.

By the way, the reason for leaving is clear. I want a change and don't really want a headache in doing so.

benno · Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 501 Location: Fake Mongolia

bearcanada · Joined: 04 Sep 2005 Posts: 312 Location: Calgary, Canada

Hello Benno;

I'm sorry, but what you said isn't true. It isn't a matter of a contract being "bad" but of being valid and enforceable. Here is an example:

One contract I've seen says, ".... both parties should adhere to all the provisions of the contract." "Should" is not a contract word. What this passage means is that you 'should' adhere to the contract, but if you don't want to then you don't have to.

Because the contract is 'badly written' it isn't enforceable since the parties don't actually HAVE to comply if they don't want to. And the signatures testify to this freedom.

Also, it is common that if one party breaches a contract where no particular penalties are specified, that act can void the entire contract. But if, as I suspect, the contract is so poorly written that it can't be enforced, then it doesn't really matter.

benno · Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 501 Location: Fake Mongolia

bearcanada · Joined: 04 Sep 2005 Posts: 312 Location: Calgary, Canada

Dear Benno;

Disagreements are for opinions, not for facts. I'll try one last time.

OK, the contract is, as you say, "binding", INCLUDING the part that says you "should" adhere to the contract but don't have to".

Why sign it at all? Well, this one should never have been signed because the things in it that were so "binding" were nonsense. A contract is not meant to be vague obscure. If two or more people sign a contract that is so poorly worded it creates no obligations and can't be enforced, it should not be signed.

Most of these contracts were written by amateurs so it isn't surprising they are full of holes. Maybe you have one.

nolefan · Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Posts: 1458 Location: on the run

Hi,

is your contract a legit SAFEA contract? If so, it is as legal and enforceable as anything will ever be in China. If it's your run of the mill private training center contract, then there might be a few issues with legality and such.

benno · Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 501 Location: Fake Mongolia

if you wrote it an a piece of toilet paper...its still a contract....whether its sh it or not..(not literally!)
so its bad cause you dont particularly like it....oh i see!

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Actually, this topic is totally exhausted since the original poster started that other unedifying thread in which he informed the audience here that he was considering "pulling a runner" without giving valid reasons; later it transpired he was working illegally here - probably not by his design.
His legal status is murky at best and I doubt he cares one way or another; what he does care for is to move on and find a new situation, leaving behind an employer (duped or not) and a landlord in possession of his deposit for 3 months' worth of rental.
No matter whether he is on a tourist visa or not, if he signed a contract which has the stamp of approval from the local PSB it is legally enforceable; don't be so sophistic about legalities - the PSB can make any contract legally binding. But if he signed a mere agreement that has never been greenlighted by the PSB then I for one don't see much trouble ahead for him since the PSB were not party to the deal.