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Union Jack
Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 15
Location: Taiwan
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 Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| I think that this is a very sad situation but it make me think of the little piece of paper called a landing card that states to the effect that bringing drugs into the country can carry the death penalty. I therefore really do not have a lot of sympanthy for them. Good luck to them. They will need it. |
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teacha
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| WOE, WHAT A BY LINE. |
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kuberkat
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 358
Location: Oman
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject: LITERACY FOR ELT TEACHERS NOW! |
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Well, I am certainly not going to argue for or against drugs, but everyone who lands in Taiwan fills in a landing card with the warning of the death penalty for possession printed on it in very clear and (by Jove!) correct English, and passes by several very clear signs to the same effect.
Anyone who did not read that might not quite deserve execution, but probably lacks the reading comprehension skills required to teach English, no? |
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teacha
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:56 am Post subject: Re: LITERACY FOR ELT TEACHERS NOW! |
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| kuberkat wrote: |
Well, I am certainly not going to argue for or against drugs, but everyone who lands in Taiwan fills in a landing card with the warning of the death penalty for possession printed on it in very clear and (by Jove!) correct English, and passes by several very clear signs to the same effect.
Anyone who did not read that might not quite deserve execution, but probably lacks the reading comprehension skills required to teach English, no? |
This guy was a relatively long term resident! I think we can assume HE GOT THE CONTRABAND IN TAIWAN. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 1:25 am Post subject: Re: LITERACY FOR ELT TEACHERS NOW! |
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| teacha wrote: |
| This guy was a relatively long term resident! I think we can assume HE GOT THE CONTRABAND IN TAIWAN. |
I don't agree that this means that he automatically got it here. In fact I think it more likely that he would have got it elsewhere as if he was a long term resident he would no doubt have felt more confident that he could pull it off and would have had the networks and contacts necessary to do it. |
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teacha
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| WHAT KIND OF NONSENSE IS THAT GRISWALD? He was charged in HIS HOUSE, NOT THE AIRPORT? Your spin is sickening. Neither of us know how he got it but we both know it wasn't in the airport so unless it had a panam sticker on it, he probably wasn't whording a personal supply. He was not charged with selling. The gov't charges foreigners with importing rather than possessing because they prefer to, for penalties or press or whatever, not because of proof, that's common knowledge. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| teacha wrote: |
| WHAT KIND OF NONSENSE IS THAT GRISWALD? He was charged in HIS HOUSE, NOT THE AIRPORT? Your spin is sickening. Neither of us know how he got it but we both know it wasn't in the airport so unless it had a panam sticker on it, he probably wasn't whording a personal supply. He was not charged with selling. The gov't charges foreigners with importing rather than possessing because they prefer to, for penalties or press or whatever, not because of proof, that's common knowledge. |
Let me start out by saying I know nothing about the case other than what I have read. My comments are not meant to be indicative of this particular individual or case. My comments are general in nature.
Now....
Where does your mail get delivered Teacha? Or parcels? Mine get delivered to my house or my work. So if I was importing drugs where do you think the authorities would pick me up. They can't pick me up at the airport because I am not there. I am at home waiting for 'the stuff' to arrive. If the parcels were to be intercepted prior to my acceptance of them then there would be so many ways to get out of any resultant charges.
Once I have taken possession of the drugs it becomes that much more difficult to prove that they are not mine. Sure there are some technicalities, but overall the onus of proof of wrongdoing has been met.
Something else that you seem to be missing is that most countries, and I assume that Taiwan does too, consider a certain amount of contraband to be a commercial quantity. So whether you are stockpiling, selling, or jyst using it, once you have in your possession a certain amount of a certain drug then you are charged regardless of whether or not you are selling it or giving it away.
The rest of what you say is such nonsense that it doesn't even deserve a reply. |
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teacha
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| clark.w.griswald wrote: |
| teacha wrote: |
| WHAT KIND OF NONSENSE IS THAT GRISWALD? He was charged in HIS HOUSE, NOT THE AIRPORT? Your spin is sickening. Neither of us know how he got it but we both know it wasn't in the airport so unless it had a panam sticker on it, he probably wasn't whording a personal supply. He was not charged with selling. The gov't charges foreigners with importing rather than possessing because they prefer to, for penalties or press or whatever, not because of proof, that's common knowledge. |
Let me start out by saying I know nothing about the case other than what I have read. My comments are not meant to be indicative of this particular individual or case. My comments are general in nature.
Now....
Where does your mail get delivered Teacha? Or parcels? Mine get delivered to my house or my work. So if I was importing drugs where do you think the authorities would pick me up. They can't pick me up at the airport because I am not there. I am at home waiting for 'the stuff' to arrive. If the parcels were to be intercepted prior to my acceptance of them then there would be so many ways to get out of any resultant charges.
Once I have taken possession of the drugs it becomes that much more difficult to prove that they are not mine. Sure there are some technicalities, but overall the onus of proof of wrongdoing has been met.
Something else that you seem to be missing is that most countries, and I assume that Taiwan does too, consider a certain amount of contraband to be a commercial quantity. So whether you are stockpiling, selling, or jyst using it, once you have in your possession a certain amount of a certain drug then you are charged regardless of whether or not you are selling it or giving it away.
The rest of what you say is such nonsense that it doesn't even deserve a reply. |
Since when was the MAIL MENTIONED? The news said it was an arrest that came about from a noisy party at his apartment right? What's your mailing address? |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| teacha wrote: |
| Since when was the MAIL MENTIONED? The news said it was an arrest that came about from a noisy party at his apartment right? What's your mailing address? |
You really have a lot of trouble grasping simple concepts don't you Teacha!
Yes, he was arrested at a party, we all know that. You stated earlier that he couldn't have imported the stuff himself as he wasn't arrested at the airport. I was merely pointing out that there are other ways of importing stuff into Taiwan, and giving a reason why he may have been arrested at home even though the authorities were aware that he was importing.
Unlike yourself I don't pretend to know everything about the case and I certainly don't want my posts on this subject to adversly affect peoples opinions. I don't know the guy and as I mentioned I am no more familiar with the case than anyone who reads the press on the subject.
How about you? What makes you such an expert on this particular case? |
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teacha
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| clark.w.griswald wrote: |
| teacha wrote: |
| Since when was the MAIL MENTIONED? The news said it was an arrest that came about from a noisy party at his apartment right? What's your mailing address? |
You really have a lot of trouble grasping simple concepts don't you Teacha!
Yes, he was arrested at a party, we all know that. You stated earlier that he couldn't have imported the stuff himself as he wasn't arrested at the airport. I was merely pointing out that there are other ways of importing stuff into Taiwan, and giving a reason why he may have been arrested at home even though the authorities were aware that he was importing.
Unlike yourself I don't pretend to know everything about the case and I certainly don't want my posts on this subject to adversly affect peoples opinions. I don't know the guy and as I mentioned I am no more familiar with the case than anyone who reads the press on the subject.
How about you? What makes you such an expert on this particular case? |
I simply expressed doubt that he was importing it since that's the common charge they throw for posession, you however wrote, "I think it more likely that he would have got it elsewhere as if he was a long term resident he would no doubt have felt more confident that he could pull it off and would have had the networks and contacts necessary to do it.
" You, Mr. Matlock are out of order! Your convoluted reasoning and failure to grasp simple concepts can only be dealt with in the following way: I hypothesize that he found a local dealer which MOST drug using foreigners do, rather than get into the importing game. He was then making too much noise, they raided the apt. and made an example out of him. Following your logic, most foreigners in Taiwan for a while that indulge in illegal substances import them for resale rather than purchase them locally for recreational usage, e.g. "partying". Why acording to Clark? Because they feel more confident that they can import them and make money as opposed to consume them personally. Additionally, the gov't charged him not with the normal charge they throw at foreigners for posession but with a much more rare charge of importing. I wish we had a new article on this dude. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:49 am Post subject: |
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I have admitted all along that I have no idea where the guy got his gear. It seems to me that the penalties for importing or possessing what he was caught with are the same, so I don't subscribe to your suggestion that he is being fitted up in some way.
I looked back to your ealier post where you said this:
| teacha wrote: |
| This guy was a relatively long term resident! I think we can assume HE GOT THE CONTRABAND IN TAIWAN. |
As I explained to you when you first joined us on the Taiwan forum, using all caps is considering shouting or yelling on a message board. Therefore from the above quote it seems that you are drawing attention to the fact that in your opinion 'he got the contraband in Taiwan.' You later go on to suggest that as he wasn't arrested at the airport that he MUST have gotten the stuff locally.
I don't agree, hence my comments in this thread.
At the end of the day it really doesn't matter. If the guy is guilty then he will be punished. If he is not guilty then let's hope for all of our sakes that this is discovered. I don't however believe that anyone thinks he is entirely innocent, and as many other people have pointed out, you would have to be a bit of a dumb ass to get involved with drugs in Taiwan considering the much touted penalties here! |
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Miyazaki
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Location: My Father's Yacht
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| Police say that Mathew was smuggling drugs into Taiwan by hiding them in textbooks. |
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Pop Fly
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| Griz, why bother, man? Obviously , teacha has his head all the way up there. |
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teacha
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| Miyazaki wrote: |
| Police say that Mathew was smuggling drugs into Taiwan by hiding them in textbooks. |
Wow ! |
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ramakentesh
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 6:54 am Post subject: |
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'In fact I think it more likely that he would have got it elsewhere as if he was a long term resident he would no doubt have felt more confident that he could pull it off and would have had the networks and contacts necessary to do it.'
It is possible and quite likely, but when I first arrived I met a guy who introduced me to a group of locals that I soon realised were heavily into the drug scene. Now I know my luck, and I could see the headlines back home so I got away from these people quick smart and out of shear paranoia broke off all contact immediately.
But this surprised me. There are definately drug-orientated elements in the local population as well as amongst foreign teachers. When you look at the types of substances that this guy was caught with they appear to be more the types of susbtances one would expect a westerner to use - although Meth is a huge problem in Thailand - with some rather frightening consequences from what I saw on an extended visit (unless men with psychosis and pistols dont cause you concern)...
I think this guy would be happy that the Taiwanese government has only executed a couple of people in the last few years and is making statements to Human-rights organisations that it will be abolishing the death penalty 'in the near future'.
Mind you a life in jail would really suck...
But really - people know the rules here ! |
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