Job Discussion Forums

[tofuman]

It's time, kiddies. Time to get organized. Certainly the resources are here. Like it or not, dealing with Chinese principals is often going to result in misunderstandings. Frequently, outright fraud, deceit, and trickery are in the mix for the ESL prospect. And FTs are obviously not all respectable, responsible, qualified individuals, either.

Some type of organization would be in the interests of the employer and prospect. FT members would have had to complete at least 2 or three one year contracts, have some type of ESL training and a minimum educational attainment, such as bachelor's degree. Newbies might gain admission by posting a bond, payable to the school if they run without good reason. Likewise, the school could post a bond, payable to the FT if they blatantly, maliciously, or fraudulently violate employment conditions.

Schools could be screened for legitimacy, quality of students, facilities, location, culture, etc.

Member schools and candidates could be matched, and results reported back to the organization. A legitimate list of references could be compiled on member schools and FTs

Right now, I get a lot of pleasure from telling English school owners to take their job offer and shove it, but that may change. Even if it doesn't, all one need do is read these boards to see a crying need for some type of organization such as I am outlining here.

It would certainly advance the interests of FETs in China and the industry as a whole.

[ChinaMovieMagic]

Sounds political.Count me in.
I like the idea.
Although not the use of "Mafia"...even in jest.
JALT--Japan Association of Language Teachers--can be a model.
It'll be invaluable to have a well-respected Chinese university as a Partner...to be seen as NOT a threat to the system, but as a group of concerned FT professionals working w/Chinese colleagues.

[tofuman]

I regret the connotation of the word "mafia." Consider, however, the legend associated with it: immigrants banding together to protect themselves against exploitation, abuse, and injustice.

It certainly seems like a good idea from my experience, but unless enough FTs believe it to be useful, it would be a pointless pursuit.

The most difficult part, besides stirring up a complacent group of FTs, would be to get schools to put up the bond. Most of them, presently, never plan on paying a penalty no matter what happens. And as long as "scabs" are willing to take employment from institutions of that nature, the organization would lack effective "muscle."

Of course, I am not advocating violence, but one can see how it was a useful tool for certain groups to accomplish their goals for a larger "good."

If institutions were unable to get FTs without participating, the organization would begin to accomplish its goals for both the students and the FTs--quality people providing quality service.

I myself would likely not meet the criteria for membership; however, presently, I'm not teaching English. In the past two weeks I have had two offers to teach in small schools. I declined both. It is fairly routine for employers to approach foreigners on the street and offer employment without questioning credentials.

CMM, perhaps the ESL community in China is too fragmented and individualized for such an organization to work at the present time.

[geekyguy]

[Roger]

I am glad to note who is not going to join this FT union; count me in then!
Although I have to add that "Mafia" hasn't got ANY connotiations other than the meaning of really bad boys. Such as those who have already voiced their desire not to join.

[oprah]

Hey Rodger.... did you mean no women allowed by
bad boys comment....Mafia

[cujobytes]

[mlalahoi]

Sorry, everyone can jump on me for this, but there is no way no how this would ever work. As soon as you tried "evaluating" the schools everyone involved would find themselves with cancelled visas and three day passes to re-patriate. IF the "big guys" like Abbot and Proctor&Gamble can't make the CHinese follow thier rules, what makes you think a rag-tag bunch FT's can? And since when did schools care whether thier teachers were qualified or not? Nobody cares how well educated thier advertisements are...
It's a nice idea and if possible it would be great, but I just don't see it happening.

[Roger]

cujobite,
my previous post was tongue in cheek. Seriously, unionising of FTs is not on the cards. You are right - too many transients. And for this to work we would all have to be in impeccable employment situations (resident's permits, no F visas any longer!).
And we would have to pay union fees. Who is willing to pay?

Finally, the authorities have put up a strong bulwark against foreign self-determination here. If you are not a Chinese national you cannot be represented by any union. And unions are CCP-controlled anyway...
Interestingly enough, WFO-businesses are required by law to allow their staff to form a labour union... WFO = Wholly-Foreign-owned...

[cujobytes]

[Brian Caulfield]

I found the KOTESOL in Korea very valuable . For Korean English teachers and Foreign English teachers it is very edifying . This communication by E-mail gets to vicious . In Korea they have national meetings where guest speakers come and talk . Dave Sperling made many guest talks . They just recieved Stephen Krashen for a seminar. You get to talk shop and check out all the materials and new books .
I am really down at the moment after constantly having Chinese schools trick me . I know they were tricked and so I must pay for the last person . This vicious circle needs to end .
My gut feeling now is that the Chinese government really wants everyone in the world to learn Chinese . Maybe a good idea . I seem to be learning more Chinese than my students are learning English .
I move to make Roger our first president of the association . I would like to throw my hat in to be Vice president . I am an expert at vices .

[Sixerfan]

Well, I hate to say it, but it works in Korea and Japan because they have a little thing we call FREEDOM TO DO SO!

I'm sure those models are effective, too. I'm sure they make life better for FT's in those locales. But you're a fool to think any Chinese would ever respect such a thing. Some might, to your face, but you know what the real thought would be. I think all of us that have taught in China know our status on the totem pole.

I really do think it's a good idea. It'd come in handy in so many ways...

If nothing more, this is proof of what utter garbage the CCP really is. I swear, their mission is to find any good idea and stamp it out before it spreads.

[Starry Night]

[stillnosheep]

[SimonM]