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Chris_Crossley
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Still in the centre of Furnace City, PRC, after eight years!!!
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 Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:37 am Post subject: Experience before a master's can prove invaluable |
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| EnglishBrian wrote: |
| British people who do TEFL generally have degrees and then do a CELTA. Work for a few years and if they like it, then do a Masters. In fact almost all British Masters degrees in TEFL/ESL or whatever you choose to call it, demand several years of teaching experience before you can start the course. This is the frame I tend to think in. [...] A lot of US people seem to do a Masters before they start teaching, straight after a BA. |
I can certainly echo EnglishBrian's take on this situation. I obtained my first degree way back in 1988, but I did not gain my Trinity College Certificate in TESOL until 2001. If only I had thought about doing TEFL earlier, then I would have had more than a decade of TEFL experience behind me by now! Oh, well, we live and learn, especially when we are teaching abroad, and that is certainly the case for me. I reckon that I have learned much more about teaching ESOL since gaining that certificate than during the course, but that remark is in no way meant to devalue the merits of that course; far from it, I learned many things from it, too.
I will be going on to do a distance-learning master's degree in applied linguistics from next February, so this means that I will be continuing to work and to gain valuable experience while undertaking the master's. As EnglishBrian says, most (if not all) British-based master's degrees in TESOL or Applied Linguistics require candidates to have accumulated at least two or three years of practical, full-time experience before applying, since much of what is contained in the syllabus will undoubtedly require students to draw from their own experiences in teaching.
Hence, I would say to Tanachke that two or three years of experience would do a world of good before taking a master's degree. That way, when it comes to doing the degree, it would be much easier to draw from a wealth of personal teaching experience outside of a course like the CELTA than during the relatively few hours of observed teaching practice within one. |
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orangiey
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 217
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:19 am Post subject: |
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We chose to the the CELTA course as we had no teaching experience!
We are are married UK couple in our late 30s and are both qualified professionals in the UK (optics and pharmacy). We felt that whilst this satifised the visa requirements as a foreign expert!!, we were not able to say we could stand in front of a classroom and teach satisfactorily.
The CELTA gives you some teaching experience in a controlled enviornment. You can make the mistakes I'm sure all novices make before you are let loose in the real World.
If its a choice between someone with no teaching experience and someone with a CELTA, who would you choose? |
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Chris_Crossley
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Still in the centre of Furnace City, PRC, after eight years!!!
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:36 am Post subject: TEFL attracts all sorts of people |
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| orangiey wrote: |
| If it's a choice between someone with no teaching experience and someone with a CELTA, who would you choose? |
Chinese language mills which are desperate to fill teaching vacancies will - and usually do - take anybody, whether CELTA-qualified or not. When I was at EF English First in Wuhan (Hankou) for two years, there were some FTs hired who had neither teaching experience nor a CELTA or the equivalent. Happily, they mucked in and worked hard, so that they eventually became as good as, if not better than, those who had done a TESOL certificate course.
On this forum, though, one can read stories from current and former DoSes about people who were hired by the school in order to address a shortage, and these people turned out to be utterly crap at teaching. I still remember the story posted recently in another thread ("Who's the looniest teacher you've ever worked with?") about the Kiwi who came over to China to get involved in a business venture, only that failed, so he turned to a university to get some income as a so-called teacher of ESOL.
However, it turned out that he was an alcoholic, who kept demanding money to feed his drunken habit, as well as a clueless teacher (according to his unfortunate students), not to mention a somewhat lecherous devil, who, predictably, was fired and "literally" bundled into a taxi and told never to return.
The TEFL "profession" does attract all sorts of people, there is no doubt about that. |
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EnglishBrian
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 189
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| On my CELTA course a few years back we had a lovely old guy who couldn't teach to save his life. He failed the course but told us afterwards he wasn't worried about that - he'd only decided to do it to fill in some time before flying to China to take up a job he'd already been offered unconditionally! |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| Do teachers with the CELTA, DELTA get paid more than those without qualifications in China? A school I once worked at in Istanbul actually paid an increment if the teacher had a 'B' or 'A' pass at CELTA. Not very much I admit. 4% extra amonth for a 'B' and 7% for an 'A' pass. |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| The English Centre in Osmanbey said they preferred B at CELTA but it was a load of crap. A mate of mine worked there with no CELTA but he did have an MA in philosopy and got paid the same as everyone else. |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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So what if he had an MA in Philosophy? That wasnt part of the increment system. Teachers did not get an increment for MAs in an unrelated field. Had he had an 'a'or 'b'pass in CELTA he would have got an increment.
i believe your friend stayed on for a second year and he would have got an increment for being a second year teacher. |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah but it cracks me up how they used to advertise for CELTA B grade preferred but that was all a lie. They would happily employ someone without a CELTA or degree, just like all the other mills.
No doubt it has all been done to death at the Madrid Bar. |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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My apologies to all. I promised on The turkey forum I was going to ignore 31, but I cant this time.
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| Yeah but it cracks me up how they used to advertise for CELTA B grade preferred but that was all a lie. |
I wrote that ad, and if someone applied without the basic qualiifications of a BA and a CELTA, then they got a polite letter back saying we werent in a position to offer them employment.
No qualifications, no job, no lie.. End of subject |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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How do you know if they had a CELTA or a degree? Did you write to the awarding bodies?
How do you know that when you weren't DOS they didn't take anyone?
My friend did work there, did not have a CELTA but did have an MA in philosophy. True. |
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orangiey
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 217
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:24 am Post subject: |
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But if you have just got a degree in Pharmacy you not an expert in Pharmacy. You then need to start practicing in the profession and gain experience. You then can't deceide to be a Dentist for example using the same qualifacation, you would have to go back and get a dentistry qualifacation so why does any degree qualify you to be a teacher? It doesn't.
Get a relevant qualifacation for the revelvant field!!
CELTA can be counted as one of these. Then build up a portfolio of experience upon obtaining it with maybe furthur educational certs after.
It is not the magic know all qualifacation but the foundation for a field that can be nutured over many years. |
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menace2society32
Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 92
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:27 pm Post subject: Grading process |
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| Ok, can someone give me some info? I am currently taking the Celta. I am at the end of the third week and got a "below standard" today on my eighth teaching lesson. I have one more lesson next week. Of my previous seven lessons, 5 were "up to standard", 1 was "above standard", and 1 was "just to standard". Am I in danger of not passing if I don't perform well on my last lesson. Feel free to PM if you want. Thanks for any input. |
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Spinoza
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 194
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by Spinoza on Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| The course Tutors will look at your overall performance. we all have bad lessons from time to time. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Don't ask me. Ask you course tutors! Generally- if they feel you are in imminent danger of failing, they should be talking to you about it. (And telling you why you might fail, and what steps on your part are needed to avoid it.)
But don't wait and let yourself get surprised at the end. Ask them how you're doing, and what you need to focus on to make sure you're on track.
We all have crap lessons occasionally, and we all know that first time teachers on a training course might have more than most. That's fine. One of the things you'll be marked on is how you learn from your failures. So get onto the tutors, see what they think you should have learned from your screwup, and try to demonstrate that you have. (Ask them how they'd like to see you react, then do it. It's not all about teaching, it's also about taking it seriously and jumping through the right hoops.)
Regards,
Justin |
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