Job Discussion Forums

[freddie's friend daniel]

Sweetsee,

I agree with the other posters here. I wouldn't get too het up about the parents not wanting to get into conversation with you. I taught at one JHS for five years and the parents rarely tried to engage me in any dialogue at all. Even at the end of "open day" lessons, the mothers would all scuttle out of the classroom as soon as the bell rang, terrified that they might actually have to speak to me. I had to assume then that they were just afraid to have to speak English (even though my Japanese isn't too bad) because the few that did ever remain for a few words were the mothers who had lived abroad or had good spoken English skills. I think that's probably the main problem in your case too. And it doesn't matter if you are their offsprings' "co-homeroom-teacher"; you are a foreigner and when there is another Japanese teacher they can talk to, they will. How much do you contribute in parent-teacher meetings? Do you regular meet with the mothers to slang out little Shotaro's attention deficit disorder? Do the parents actually know that you are available for discussion rather than window-dressing?

As for being snubbed by your colleagues, that's just plain rude! It doesn't make a difference what the working environment is, whether it be a school, an office, whatever, I would be unhappy having to work with such unfriendly colleagues. I don't expect to get on with everybody I meet in life and I've had a few colleagues in my time that I avoided where possible but to walk past someone and not even acknowledge them first thing in the morning is unacceptable. You must be miserable. But I don't think you can put it down to "being Japanese".

And the students, well, as someone else wrote: they are just teenagers. I saw the same kids 4 or 5 times a week for 3 years and never had a major problem with any of them. We had fun lessons and we all got on famously but I'd be lucky to get a grunt out of them if I met them on the street. Teenagers have better things to do than to acknowledge the presence of their English teacher. Think back to when you were in school yourself: did you say hi to all your teachers when you met them in the corridor? I know I didn't. Had I met the German tutor, I would have run the other way rather than take the chance of making eye-contact!

And Glenski... I don't think Sweetsee meant it the way it came out! At least I hope not.

[casual]

I have been teaching in Junior high since April and I find that the students are quite talkative, but not in the classroom.

Students always come to talk to me in the staffroom, in the corridors and outside school but a lot of them clam up when it comes to speaking in front of their teacher.

I also attended a PTA session and the parents nearly had a heart attack when I attempted to talk to them. They did give me lots of sweets and snacks though so it was a nice consolation.

On the subject of teacher relations I personally havent had any professional problems with the teachers but one or two of them dont exactly hide the fact that they would rather not have me there. I dont even bother speaking to one teacher outside the classroom unless its work related. After attempting to engage in conversation many times and getting almost no response i simply cant be bothered to waste my energy. We walk to lessons together in complete silence. I have to say though that he is quite professional in the classroom and does always ask for input when planning lessons.

I was talking to another ALT recently and he had similar problems with other teachers. His theory was that some teachers resent the attention that the ALTs get from students.

[Jizzo T. Clown]

I'm having a similar experience at the University I'm teaching at here in the states. Most of my students are Japanese, and while I was in Japan, I got the impression that Japanese students study study study. Whereas here, they act like they're on vacation ("holiday" for you Brits). Some are routinely late for class, others regularly miss classes altogether, and the ones who do show up are more interested in what's on sale at the mall than the lesson. GRANTED, not all of my students behave this way, but the ones who do really stand out. I think that while they were in Japan, they tought it would be *cool* to come to America to study. As most of them are 18-19 years old, they lack the discipline to take responsibility for their learning now that they're not under pressure from parents and Japanese society. I look for many of them to return to Japan after one semester, never to return to the States!

As for the greetings (or lack thereof), I know what you mean. I see these kids on campus all the time, and most just ignore me, or give a half-smile at best. I'm not sure if it's because they're trying to draw the line between teacher and friend (as many of these students participate well in class) or if it's because they're afraid of my exposing their poor English ability in public, as stated previously.

However, I believe there's no excuse for them not to want to practice English more than ever, since they are in a country that requires it. They remind me of all those gaijin in Japan who stayed inside their "foreigner bubble," in which case they have no reason to practice their English--they have each other. How discouraging.

[freddie's friend daniel]

Jizzo,

Thanks for clarifying for "us Brits" what a vacation is. Do you know what "pants" are?

Anyway, one of the points you make is spot on: the differentiation between teacher and mate (um, "buddy", I suppose...I mean, "I guess"). I think a lot of newbies in particular make the mistake of trying to be the students' bestest friend ever. There's nothing wrong with being liked by the students and being popular but it shouldn't be at the expense of professionalism and it certainly shouldn't be a teacher's main concern. The students shouldn't have to be the ones to draw this line.

If students are non-communicative outside class, it's probably just something we have to accept, come to terms with the fact that the kids see us as "teacher" rather than "friend". Sweetsee, I see from reading this thread that you've been at this for 15 years and you are certainly no newbie. In your case, the "authority figure" vs "playmate" issue is even more pronounced, compared to say an ALT who is drafted in once a month to play games, because you are a homeroom teacher. Don't go losing any sleep over kids giving you the cold shoulder.

And Gizzo, I agree that students studying abroad should be taking every opportunity to practice English but they probably see enough of you in class. What they really need to be doing is making some friends of their own age and practicing with them!

[Sweetsee]

Hi King K,


Thank you very much for that, I call it like I see it.
Oh and by the way, pass the retardant.


Hi Daniel, Casual and Jizzo,

Thank you all very much for your comments on the subject, I agree with everything you all said and I am happy you have taken your time to reply to this thread.

I continue to learn how to make my way in the minefield that is my workplace. On the one hand, we are engaged to instruct our charges on speaking and on the other we are expected to be something we are not, well not me. I am passionate about my work and if I have to suffer some bumps and bruises along the way, than so be it. I don't pretend to be something that I am not and I don't bullsh#t myself. I like my job and intend to keep it. They approached me, they hired me and that's what they get, not something that can be molded into something that suits them.

I am not bothered by the students incapable of acknowledging me in or outside the classroom, but I never give up on them. I am not bothered by fellow teachers lacking social decorum, it's their problem. And finally, I am not bothered by an institution which gives so little regard to the future of it's students but I refuse to imitate it's uncaring nature.


Enjoy yourselves,
s



Hi Glenski,


I stand by what I said, and I think you know what I mean.



Try to enjoy,
s

[Glenski]

[6810]

ewww.... kimochi warui...

send a PM to Sweetsee, Glenski, that clamour for an apology in a public place is nothing short of undignified.

[Jizzo T. Clown]

(off-topic)
Freddie's Friend,

Pants are items of clothing like Levi's, etc. I think you were referring to underwear. That's one joy of this line of work-working with Brits and learning *proper* English.

I'll never forget the day I walked into the teacher's office and said "All right w@nkers?"

(At the time I thought it was a term of endearment!)

[casual]

[quote="Jizzo T. Clown"](off-topic)
Freddie's Friend,

Pants are items of clothing like Levi's, etc. I think you were referring to underwear. That's one joy of this line of work-working with Brits and learning *proper* English.

I'll never forget the day I walked into the teacher's office and said "All right w@nkers?"

(At the time I thought it was a term of endearment!)[/quote]

Pants means underwear in the south of England. In the north pants means trousers

[Sour Grape]

[casual]

[quote="Sour Grape"][quote="Sweetsee"]

I am greeted by all the teachers I work with at both schools. I personally don't think it's [b]some sort of Japanese thing[/b]. If none of the students, parents or other teachers are greeting you the problem is probably more to do with you than them. Do you look friendly and approachable?

Anyway, to answer your question, I don't exactly discuss philosophy with any of my students, but they are all capable of and willing to exchange small talk.[/quote]

I know that this wasnt directed at me but I thought I would reply anyway with regards to teachers greetings. In my experience some teachers dont even bother to look up when I greet them or enter the room. Reasons I can attribute to this maybe that they dont like me, they dont have any interest in me, they are scared of talking English or they know my Japanese is weak so they dont want a broken conversation. I think its probably the latter.

I have quite a good relationship with many of the teachers and spend most lunchtimes talking to them in Japanese because they know I am trying to improve. I am quite an approachable person but i do think that some teachers have a negative attitude towards ALTs. but their reasons have never been made clear to me.

I have to say that I havent experienced any animosity, rather I appear to be invisible to some teachers.

[Sweetsee]

Very interesting, this thread has somehow turned into what I was hoping it would, without a clear direction in mind.

[Brooks]

we have two groups of kids at my school: the motivated and the unmotivated. The motivated try to learn English and the rest don`t.
Compared to other schools, my school isn`t doing so bad. International education is really pushed.

We do have some unfriendly types, including a couple people who teach English but prefer not to speak it. I find it weird but there are people like that. At my previous job a math teacher spoke English the best, but he went to USC for university. He was bothered when I said he spoke English the best. He wanted me to say a Japanese teacher of English.

A lot of Kanto people are yoso yoso shi (cold) so I don`t think it is me who is not friendly. I am a guest in the country, although I find some Japanese expect foreigners to act like hosts: ie they expect the foreigner to initiate any conversation.

some time ago I heard a "rumor" that the foreign teachers just played games in class, which was not true. What some teachers don`t get is that teaching EFL is not like teaching history or literature. I can`t just lecture to my students. I want them to speak in class, and I need to be creative and try to teach in different ways. Trying to motivate the slackers is a daily challenge.

[Speed]

Regardless of whether a person speaks the same language as you, co-workers should extend greetings with one another. A conversation doesn't need to ensue.

This should also go for the parents whom the orignal poster mentioned to have met previously. For them to just nod your way or say hello (in Japanese) is the least they can do. This is a question of good manners - not whether they speak your language or not.

When I worked in Japanese schools, teachers constantly espoused the importance of "aisatsu" (greetings) to their students. But yet, many of the same teachers hypocritcally do not greet others and ignore people in the same faculty because they're an ALT or a non-native Japanese speaker; in fact ignoring other Japanese teachers as well.

I'm a strong believer in the importance of 'aisatsu' and to work with those who don't practice what they preach; I find very disappointing.

I now work in an office with native speakers of a variety of languages and we always greet each other (in Japanese or whatever we want) - this is a question of manners and etiquette - not language.

[Glenski]

Hellooooooooooo people!
Many of you are saying the same thing, that foreign and Japanese teachers (and often students) SHOULD greet others in the hallways.

No problem or argument with that.

BUT...

Have any of you really considered why they don't with Sweetsee? THAT'S the problem at hand. He/She has been in Japan about 15 years teaching English, and has been at his/her current school for 2 or 3, I think. Look back on some previous threads just to see how much trouble he/she has stirred up there.

THEN, you'll know more about why people tend to do what they do and you'll stop throwing out these empty posts about what people do with YOU or what people SHOULD be doing.

Sweetsee said this thread is going where he/she wanted it to, but I see it as going nowhere. To say what things SHOULD be, without knowing the proper background on this specific case is pointless.