Job Discussion Forums

[noi]

We were contacted by a recruiter called “Anne” who offered us employment for the Kid Castle kindergarten branch in Tianjin.
The school was interested in our candidature and sent us a contract which we signed and returned, concluding our employment. They then mentioned that they required a one week “training” period in Shanghai. We saw it as a good opportunity for us to see the workings of this “famous” chain in China.
The recruiter told us that everything was taken care of and gave us a contact number. But, surprise! When we arrived in Shanghai, the hotel wasn’t paid as we were told. This first miscommunication was to set the tone for our entire “Kid Castle” experience.
In the end, we had to pay for it.
About the training: in short, we were shocked to see the absurd “teaching methods”, the level of the learners and the quality of the foreign teachers.
We soon realized that the training was, in fact, an excuse to meet us.
The people we met there informed us that Kid Castle uses the "TPR" (Total Physical Response) method of teaching throughout their branches and explained the TPR intricacies. We immediately detected ridiculousness and let out a long mental sigh.
TPR is a system of constantly using physical gestures as mnemonic devices associated with words. “Apple” is taught drawing an apple with your hands, “me” and “you” represent hands pressed to your chest and arms stretched outwards, respectively. The idea is to always use these movements during speech.
This is a perfectly valid method for working with children who suffer from mental retardation or serious learning difficulties, but we consider forcing a normal child to recognize vocabulary connected with those movements is a big mistake.
We’ll give you a funny and sad example: while we waiting to observe a class and a boy came to us and said: “Hello! My name is… How are you?”
He could not resist using TPR and ended up gesticulating like a madman while saying this simple sentence.
Unfortunately, this is not an affliction reserved to Kid Castle learners. All around China people feel they must wave to you when saying “Hello”, even when standing in front of you. Kid Castle just encourages this laughable habit.
The appearance of the foreigner teaching the class was ridiculous: sandals, dirty feet, shorts and a school t-shirt (the school insists t-shirts with their logo to be worn by foreign teachers). The t-shirt was very old, with the logo washed away, had a few holes in the fabric and dirty.
Another very unpleasant impression was given by the children’s behaviour during the class, and especially during the break while talking with their foreign teacher.
The children (mixed ages, one of them obviously mentally retarded. In China, we had repeatedly observed children with serious mental problems are put into the same class as normal children. Chinese parents do not consider that their child is a bit… different. And nobody from the school dares say anything. The result? Easy to imagine.) were shouting and running, demonstrating an absolute lack of discipline and respect for their teacher.
During a game, certain children didn’t know how to behave if they were not the winners. A girl simply hit the foreigner. The foreigner teacher didn’t even react. To make matters worse, we were told that that class was of the most disciplined!
At the end of this "training"week, we were asked to give a demonstration class. Not in a class, but in front of a school representative. It was quite ridiculous.
We were expecting to give a demo in front of a class. That is a real demonstration of teaching ability.
After the training/orientation we went to Tianjin.
When we arrived and saw the so-called apartment they expected us to live in, we got scared. When we arrived at the building, we were hesitant even to enter. The staircase was packed with objects and the walls were slick with oil/grease or some other black substance we could not identify. There was a layer of dust and dirt everywhere. Also, it was located in an area with many poor people and put our safety at risk.
We simply could not touch the door handles. We don’t even want to try to describe the bed and the bathroom… a cradle of infection and filth…
We insisted to be sent to a hotel until the next day when we could begin looking for an apartment. After visiting a few places, we accepted one.
We went to the school for two weeks to watch demonstration classes and get used to the TPR.
After two weeks, they simply told us to look for another school and they gave us ten days to vacate the apartment.
We didn’t even start to teach, we only gave a 10 minute demonstration class in front of the Chinese assistants and a non-native foreign teacher (who was making enormous grammar mistakes) and a few children.
The next day (August the 16th, 2004), we were told that the kids and the parents who saw us (how?! the parents were not even peeping over the windows or through key holes!) prefer the other couple (we have met another couple one of the days). So, we came to the conclusion that the school invited two couples with the intention of choosing one!
They finally admitted that we were there “by mistake”, and that they were expecting another couple… Before being quite brave and admitting this, they had to serve us the traditional Chinese meal: dumplings with lies. "The children and the parents didn’t like you!"
We told them to be more inventive because this was too ridiculous.
Less than two weeks to vacate the apartment. They didn’t pay us for the two weeks in Tianjin and the week we spent in Shanghai.
… imagine the hassle of finding a school so quickly.
The children were subject to massive and unacceptable grammar and pronunciation mistakes.


• look to your pictures
• are you ready? no. why no?
• why it’s not?
• why you forgot?
• choose any of this animals
• if it more that one
• today, we gonna study
• what do you say?
• where are the Oscar and the ox?
• can the Tom fly?
• who is winner?
• where is the Oscar?
(foreign teacher)


• candy say
• who have?
• you will look at teacher
• ax (n.a. for “ask”!) me what’s your name
• candy prepare a…
• remember song?
• you sit that chair?
• but you not say ready
• now will stop
• Candy say you should sit baby chair
• because Cindy speak loudly
• listen to tape
(Candy)


• we gonna play a game
• we need two team
• how many student in the classroom?
• team b got two star
• we have 3 time to guess
• you have only one time
(Sina)



If you are expecting to work in a professional environmet, look elsewhere than Kid Castle.
At least, this is our opinion.

[rocknroll]

Welcome to China ....Well this is CHINA.There are good schools and bad schools.I think this is the second warning for KID CASTLE on this Forum just in one month.

[frigginhippie]

Horrible story, wonderful read! That covers it well. Best was when you added "foreign teacher" after the horrendous Chinglish. Jeez. Sorry about your experience, and best of luck if you try again.
-fh


"Me fail English? That's unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum

[YankeeDoodleDandy]

Please read some of the EF horror stories. You are not alone. Are you still in China??

[kev7161]

Although cautioned by a friend not to do so, I'm going to add a little reflection here on my new job. First let me say that I like my new school a lot. They've been very helpful and generous. Let me also say that I love my new students (okay, "love" may be a little strong - - but they are sweet and, dare I say it, precocious). My classroom is a little small but we are making do with what we have. After saying that and reading the OP's comments about little children and after being surrounded by (but not teaching, thank the gods) little ones at this past summer's camp, I've come to the realization that all small (Chinese) children are exactly the same. They must come out of some cookie-cutter factory with the exact same genes and behavior patterns.

No matter what I do or say or how loudly I may say it, it's a rare occasion indeed when I can get them to shut up and sit still for a few minutes. They always want to play and everything is a "game" to them. I give (as does the school) them plenty of opportunity to play. Between recesses (I'm the only teacher in my building that gives recesses), PE, art time, DVDs during breaks, and math or language games, these kids get to have a lot of fun every day - - well, fun in a school-environment sort of way. But there are also times when we have to have lessons. They must (should?) sit there and listen the best they can and do their work.

My TA says that what I'm teaching them is too difficult, but the simple fact is that the kids don't/won't listen and so they get lost when it's time for the actual "doing" part of the lesson. One of the strong points I have as a teacher is the modeling part of a lesson. I do it well (I've been told) and I always repeat and let the kids come up and try (whether it be a board activity or a speaking exercise). But here it seems like a lost cause because, as most of you know, once one kid is doing something on their own, you've lost the rest of the class.

So, just had to vent a little and, although the situation and surroundings are vastly different than the OP's, the kids all seem the same. But I still have 9 1/2 more months to whip these little darlings into shape!

[Tsarevich3]

Hi. I work for Kid Castle, Tianjin. I can believe most of what you say here, but I would like to provide another perspective:

"When we arrived in Shanghai, the hotel wasn�t paid as we were told."

They even tried to make me pay for my visa. I flatly refused, and they paid. Also, check your contract. I believe "training" expenses are paid for. They just gypped you.

About TPR:

I believe this is an appropriate method of teaching. We are talking about 3-12 year olds here, not adults or even middle-schoolers. Using kinetic as well as visual and auditory methods to convey information will increase their ability to remember it. Kid Castle does try to use as little Chinese as possible, and I have seen teacher clearly convey concepts through role-play and TPR. However, it can be over done. I suspect some in Kid Castle do this, but don't throw out the whole method because of some bad examples.

"The appearance of the foreigner teaching the class was ridiculous: sandals, dirty feet, shorts and a school t-shirt (the school insists t-shirts with their logo to be worn by foreign teachers). The t-shirt was very old, with the logo washed away, had a few holes in the fabric and dirty."

HAHA! You're right! This is not entirely (mostly, though) the fault of the teacher. The t-shirts are of ridiculously poor quality. In Tianjin, the FTs only wear the t-shirts for special occasions. Most of us dress appropriately otherwise, but I have seen some FTs here dress VERY casually.

"Another very unpleasant impression was given by the children�s behavior during the class, and especially during the break while talking with their foreign teacher."

I don't think it is reasonable to expect the children to be well behaved during a break. Classroom management during the class is the responsibility of the teacher, not the school. Have you ever worked with kids?

"In China, we had repeatedly observed children with serious mental problems are put into the same class as normal children."

This is the only part of your message that I found offensive. I have worked with mentally, emotionally, and physically handicapped children for more than 10 years. Segregating them from society is not the way to do things.

"shouting and running"
Children shout and run. This is the way of the world. Are you suggesting children should not shout and run? It would be much better to shout and run in productive ways. I often have my students running around the classroom, but with a linguistic purpose, such as finding appropriate flashcards.

"During a game, certain children didn�t know how to behave if they were not the winners. A girl simply hit the foreigner. The foreigner teacher didn�t even react. To make matters worse, we were told that that class was of the most disciplined!"

This is pretty bad. If a teacher cannot control the class, s/he should learn how to. In my experience, the Kid Castle policy to have a FT and a CT in the room (for assistance, NOT translation) is quite helpful in discipline.

"we were asked to give a demonstration class. Not in a class, but in front of a school representative. It was quite ridiculous."

My demo lesson was in front of a real class. I heard of it both ways. You are right, demos in front of staff people are useless to evaluate teaching ability.

"When we arrived and saw the so-called apartment they expected us to live in, we got scared."

I understand. There are some pretty bad apartments in Tianjin. However, Kid Castle does not (or, maybe, should not) require you to live in a place you don't want to live in. They do not provide apartments, only assistance in finding a place and 1000RMB/month to help. I live in a nice place for 1,500RMB/month right across the street from the school.

"We went to the school for two weeks to watch demonstration classes and get used to the TPR."

Huh? I have been working here for 4 months. I never saw you guys. How many times did you come to the school in two weeks? Only in afternoons? Or were you at the Nankai branch? Sorry I missed you!

"we came to the conclusion that the school invited two couples with the intention of choosing one!"

Perhaps. I heard we had a couple that could have come, but didn't. If it is any consolation, we have not hired any one and are still looking.

"The children and the parents didn�t like you!"

I have often heard such things. You are right: Ridiculous lies.

"The children were subject to massive and unacceptable grammar and pronunciation mistakes."

Again true. However, please understand the state of English teaching in China. There are very few people, (least of all English teachers who speak English without serious errors. The education methods and experience of teachers simply do not allow this. This is not a problem with Kid Castle, but with the whole country.

Sina and Candy's grammar mistakes:

Haha! Many such things have I heard! Sigh.

In conclusion, I have been in Tianjin for more than 5 years. Kid Castle is easily the best job I have had here, and the second best paid job. Organization is strongly lacking (my schedule changes every week, sometimes at very short notice) and some of the Chinese teachers have serious deficiencies in their professional attitudes and methods, but it is above average for China, especially Tianjin.

-Tsarevich

P.S. These comments only apply to the Tianjin branch. I have never been to Shanghai. It could be better or worse. Sounds worse.
P.P.S. No one from the school asked me to write this

[Tsarevich3]

Hello again,

After having a little while to research your claims, I would like to add some things to my previous reply.

First, I did not look at your date closely enough. It has been over a year since these things happened. The foreign teacher you mentioned has not taught here in months. What good is complaining about this?

What's the deal with the bigotry? Not only did you suggest that mentally "retarded" children should be separated from children who are not "different", you said "poor" people "put your safety at risk." You must have inhaled too much Tianjin air.

Don't you think that some of these problems could have possibly been taken care of in a year? Do you realize that perhaps China might not be as utopian as your home country, considering the last hundred years or so of its history?

This forum is a excellent place to warn dedicated teachers about dangerous and untrustworthy schools. However, I hope we as teachers will not blindly believe the word of anyone who comes on this forum with an axe to grind without at least checking for inconsistencies. Thanks.

-Tsarevich

[noi]

We appreciate the effort you put into your posts, Tsarevich, and we read them carefully—twice.
One conclusion we have reached is that more than five years in China has mutilated your ability to dissect an English text. This is not something to be ashamed of, it is inevitable that English ability declines (even if just slightly) when in such an environment as China.
Your maladroitness is accentuated by your second post. The major confusion set when we read that “these problems could have possibly been taken care of in a year”.
It seems that you do not understand our main gripe with Kid Castle.
They mistakenly hired two couples with the intention of hiring only one, having no consideration for the “losing” couple.
TPR, as we also mentioned, is a perfectly valid method for teaching mentally retarded children or children with serious learning disabilities (if such children should even need to learn a second language).
As for your theory where mentally deficient children should be taught amongst normal children—you must be kidding. Such children can not keep up with the rhythm of an ESL class. Such people require far more interaction and attention. Pretending they are “just like the others” may be great for their parents’ ego, but it doesn’t help the child much.
Nobody said deficients should be “segregated” from society (how you read that between the lines is beyond us) but rather the contrary, given an environment where they can develop their full potential, just like any other child.
Perhaps you are from a Third World country and thus do not know that Europeans and North Americans have long discovered that people with special needs shockingly require... special treatment.
Would you put a sighted child in a group of blind children?
It seems you make confusion and group into one physically and mentally handicapped children. Physically challenged people have full mental capacity and can learn at a normal pace, whereas retarded children can not.
TPR, AKA miming or mimicking, is excellent as an initial means of teaching vocabulary or verbs. But total dependency on gestures ultimately handicaps learners as well as demeans their intelligence. Kid Castle expects TPR to be used during each class for all teaching. Furthermore, the amount of material children are expected to learn is ludicrous, Kid Castle by far underestimates the learning capacity of children.
As for children running and shouting, surely you can not imagine that we would consider such behaviour unacceptable when working with young learners.
It is, however, unacceptable that children have no respect their teacher and ignore him/her.
Which brings us to our next point: assistant teachers should be used ONLY for translating.
Children need one authority in the group: the teacher. The assistant is an assistant, and is not there to keep order in the class. It is the teacher’s duty to command and expect respect and amenableness from their students, no matter their age.
As for the accusation of being “bigots”, have you check a dictionary lately?
We will gladly accept the stigma if it means we insist on using proper methods of language education. We are not “Chinese brownnosers”, which definitely shortened our Chinese experience (we were there for three years by-the-way).
We are not afraid to suggest “alternative” approaches (tactfully, for we are not brutes) in all matters foreign, for is it not our duty to educate?
Truth of the matter is Chinese education seems to work adequately for them, but when it comes to foreign language education, there is room for improvement.
Thankfully, during our one year tenure at another kindergarten we demonstrated this by obtaining fantastic results from out learners.
After one year, our six year olds had higher abilities than even the most astute 6th grade students we’ve met.
As for “these problems could possibly been taken care of in a year”, we think not.
Any school direction capable of such low and shameless behaviour will not likely reform.
We need to remind you that we did not leave the school, but were rather gotten rid of after their snafu put them in a tight spot.
They have probably learned their lesson though, as we were told that they were without foreign teachers for some time after they released us (perhaps the other couple smelled a rat and bolted).
As for your claim “No one from the school asked me to write this”, we will not dispute this. However, it is rather coincidental that, after so many years in China, you joined the forum just now, and to “save face” for Kid Castle.
By the way, the school did not even apologize.

[cj750]

So I would guess the question is ..would you have stayed and tried to work out these problems ..if the school had found you suitable...or were the problems encountered too difficult for you to survive...

most of the places will push you as far as they can and will not invest money (the reason for not payin for training) instead waiting to see how the FT reacts to conditions...and how they work with the present system used by teh school..not a nice way of doing business..but for the Chinese an effecient one...the trick is to learn how to work within the system to get what you want...sometimes it takes creative indulgence...

[Tsarevich3]

Well, I hardly know how to begin, but here goes.
As to the main point of "these problems could have been taken care of in a year", I admit that your personal grievance cannot be undone. However, you mentioned several problems. Certainly, some of them have been taken care of. Kid Castle in Tianjin was just beginning when you were here. As to your claim that they hired two couples with the intention of hiring one, I cannot confirm or deny this. It happened long before I was here.
As for TPR, you originally used very strong language, such as "ridiculousness" and "absurd" to describe the method, while in the latest post you said, "TPR, AKA miming or mimicking, is excellent as an initial means of teaching vocabulary or verbs". It is indeed difficult to dissect an English text when there is a lack of coherency.
If you admit TPR can be used legitimately in some cases, then we are only talking about matters of degree and to argue about it is pointless. I have a wide range of techniques I use in class to teach vocabulary, not only TPR. The school does not have nearly the control over my lesson plans that you seem to think they do.
Your comment: "mentally retarded children or children with serious learning disabilities (if such children should even need to learn a second language)." is another example of bigotry. Have you ever worked with mentally handicapped children? Are you qualified to judge the mental competency of these children you claim are "retarded"? Assuming that these children don't need to learn a second language is just wrong. Perhaps they will never use it (most Chinese won't, at least not daily), but assuming such is just prejudiced. Since you seem to think it is important, I am an American. (Amazing, huh?) I did not mean "bigotry" to mean you attitude toward Chinese people, but rather the handicapped and poor people.
As for assistants, I have seen schools that use assistants for translation. This is concerning for me because there is a temptation for the children to rely only on the translation, but I suppose it is possible to make it work. At Kid Castle, assistants are used in a number of ways. Yes, one of them is to help maintain discipline. Notice I said help, not do it for us. It is difficult to control a class of up to 15 3-6 year olds of a different language group. I simply cannot be everywhere at once. However, look at any authority structure in the world: Parents, government, businesses; it is possible to have multiple people in authority as long as there is: 1) a clear chain of command and 2) a unified front. To the degree that I am able to establish these with my assistant, the lesson is a success.
I am sorry that you were taken advantage of by Kid Castle. From the evidence at hand, it appears you have a legitimate complaint. However, many of the issues you raised are either a result of your arrogance towards those that have less money or intelligence than you, or irrelevant to anyone else, now that a year has passed.
I have been reading this forum for years. In fact, I even posted some before registration was required. I finally went to the trouble to registering when an issue came up that I had a vested interest in.
-Tsarevich

[Don McChesney]

Tsarevich3,
It may help you to understand the sorry story if you read a posting by noi on 22 August 2005, in this forum.

"Police and our sorrowful experiences in China."
Kid Castle Tianjin is only a small part in a long tale of "us and them.".

[Roger]

I also question parts of the story and the pedagogic wisdom noi.

Noi seems to have a number of rigidly set, unmodifiable opinions.

One is: a negative one towards TPR.

Two: noi wants "retarded" kids to be segregated! Apartheid in the school - halleluja! He has never experienced stigmatising except as an inept FT in China, perhaps.

Three: he requires a TA as "translator". If any FT needs an interpreter for his job then he is not the ideal teacher. WHy not leave the field to a bilingual Chinese one???

A good FT finds some common ground with his learners, and he works from there. His job is to build bridges between his and the students' cultures, and nsometimes this means the students have to guess and rely on their own resourcefulness.

[vikdk]

Be careful of all roger posts�once again his last post here is a fine example of the naive and misleading way that hands out his so-called advice here.

Roger you use the term pedagogic in a very glib manner � do you have any real formal pedagogic training � or are you speaking as a layman with some china ESL experience?

As any trained pedagogue would know, education isn�t merely about methodology, but about the results obtained through these methods, and how much it will cost the class to achieve these results. Now our wise friend Roger casts away the notion that using an assistant (translator) in the class can be a good idea (one of Roger�s rigidly set non-modifiable opinions � and he seems to have many of them) � but fails to realize that many foreign ESL teachers in China are achieving wonderful results when working in tandem with a Chinese co-worker. He also immediately devalues a wonderful resource for any new teachers here � who unlike wise Roger � haven�t had the chance to learn any classroom Chinese. Hey people using an assistant to translate in your class is just as ok as not using one � and in some classes the costs of not using the assistant � boredom, misunderstanding, reduced motivation � can be difficult to cope with regardless of how good a teacher you are.

He also suggests that if a foreign teacher uses translation in the classroom then she might as well quit and make way for the homegrown product. Well roger our teaching, as you so rightly point out, is a communication between cultures, and Chinese bilingual teachers, all merits included, can�t quite offer this service. Roger I�m sure you read lots of books about China before you came here � but I�m sure you learnt a whole lot more from the experience of actually setting foot here. Having a loa wai in the classroom is the closest a lot of your students have come to setting foot abroad, and just our presence � regardless of how many assistants we use, has the potential to create that kind of positive experience that encourages and motivates the student to want to learn English.

What I suggest, Roger, is that you read and ponder over some of the theory the great pedagogic thinkers have left to us. Try David Kolb first (kolb�s circle), to realize how experience is the key to true learning � a theory, which validates our role in the Chinese classroom. And try to lay off with your dogmatic preaching here � which although is good for a giggle or two � really gets up most peoples noses in the end.

[Roger]

I suggest you not seek a quarrel here, "vbdk..whatever your name is. The speech you have just given reeks of pseudo-intellectualism and pseudo-achievements.
I do not need to be told the merits of a TA in class; I have taught here for over ten years, mostly without any TA, and especially in a kindergarten setting I would want a TA not to be my interpreter. At that stage any bilingual Chinese teacher ought to be able to deliver, and your Kolbian "theory" can be safely stuffed up any aperture where it's hidden for all humanity. Kiddies don't need to be artificially "motivated"; they learn if their instructor knows how to relate to children. Any pseudo-intellectual approach is doomed to failure if you forget the psychology of a preschooler.

The OP didn't understand the modus operandi of China's schools, hence his disappointments; he obviously had too high expectations in more ways than one. His post was a tad too "lamenty". Let him discuss his insights with the Chinese crowd over at CHINA DAILY!

[vikdk]

Tush tush wise Roger - I think it�s you who�s being a touch quarrelsome now.
Now Roger � 10 years in china Roger � I�m sure your vast experience of teaching makes you realize that our profession � by the way are you a trained professional Roger? � has an intellectual foundation � you know that of sitting on your ass for 4 years in university and getting your teaching degree. So why do you do immediately dismiss an intellectual argument, and talk about shoving pedagogical research up somebody�s colon � are you trying to give me some �psuedo I�m a bloke on the street� talk?? Remember intellectual principle needs to go hand in hand with practical experience to help us decide what we have to do in the classroom. If we put poo poo on all our best theories then this task becomes very difficult.

By the way what�s this artificial motivation you talk about � drugs????? � I�m talking about using a teaching assistant not speed!!! And what has the china daily got to do with this Roger � u lost me there!