Job Discussion Forums

[Mchristophermsw]

I was at a party last night and the conversation came up about living overseas. The first person was talking about Belize and how scarred she was and the poverty ( all the while making icky faces). The next person mention how she loved Jamaica and I asked devilishly, were Kingston? and she replied "no, Montego Bay" (yeah, like that is really Jamiaca) and went on to talk about the poverty outside her compound.

Anyhow that seemed to be the theme as more and more Americans shared about their travels (Vacations). And I must mention the many put downs about standards of living in these other countries with these "poor people", however, the word "poor" referred more to their lot in life compared to Americans.

Any how this really heated me up, I then went into a short politcal science lesson and informed them about the damage the IMF and World Bank has done in these countries..ruining local economies and fostering poverty on massive scale in name sake of Global Trade.

I try to consider myself very culturally competent and sensitive and it was disheartning to see this air of supremacy among people that I thought I new.

What do you all think forum? and have you ever had any similar experiences with such elitist attitudes.

[dmb]

[Mchristophermsw]

DMB,

Never been to one of those parties but I can imagine what goes on.

I guess last night just hit me a little hard because I felt ashamed for these people in the conversation. Heck, maybe I just felt sad for their ignorance.
Whatever it was, I walked away feeling disconnected and ill feeling in my stomach.

[dmb]

Alot of that expat crowd look down on efl teachers as much as they look down on locals

[ls650]

[Mark Loyd]

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[Jyulee]

While saying "poor people in poor countries are poor because they are lazy/inferior to us" would certainly amount to racism "colonial imperialism", in my books, is like saying "these people are so much lower than us that we should control them".

I wouldn�t call simply observing poverty (or even being shocked/disgusted by it) automatically "colonialist". Neither would I attribute every instance of poverty in the world as directly influenced and completely and solely attributable to the IMF; global poverty�s a little more complicated than that.

Either way, people don�t need a degree in international politics/economics before being able to appreciate the gross unfairness of wealth distribution in the world. But, I wasn�t there in the OP�s discussion - maybe the Americans really were being "implicitly racist" and ignorant...

To answer the question, though, teachers here in Spain don�t have much of a colonialist attitude towards the locals .

[Justin Trullinger]

Thoughtful stuff, guys.

I wouldn't call noticing poverty "cultural imperialism," but many of the comments I hear when people notice it can lean in that direction. Like "if the government would invest more money in developing industry, it wouldn't have to spend so much on welfare." (Really heard that one, and it's a double fallacy. There is no welfare spending here to speak of. And irresponsible development of industry, and the borrowing involved, is what lead to the near end of public service spending here.)

Another I've heard (from US citizens) is "you can't blame us for exploiting resources, when the local people won't make the most of them." Far be it from me to blame anyone. Certainly not individual US citizens. But the reasons why local people fail to make the most of their resources should be required reading for anyone who makes that statement. The reasons are usually bigger and more complicated than laziness and inneficiency. And again, the reasons are international as well as local.


Jyullee, nobody said anything was solely attributable to the IMF, but the damage done by the irresponsible and inhumane practices of that organisation is real and serious. No doubt someone will chime in about the collusion of corrupt third world governments in the situation of their people. I have seen far too much to deny this- but having accomplices doesn't excuse the crime. Global poverty is complicated. No doubt.


Mark Loyd, do you teach? TEFL, by any chance? If so, do you REALLY dislike yourself? You seem to always want to say negative things about TEFL and TEFLers. Well, I've know quite a few, and some were irresponsible #$&holes, but then I've met some of those in most every job I've had. I don't pee in other peoples property, and I do a good, professional job, so I have nothing to be ashamed of. So why would I be down on myself for being a TEFL teacher? You really shouldn't have "gone" in the little church, but I understand your feelings of guilt. Just don't try to tar us all with the same brush, okay?

Regards,
Justin

[Mchristophermsw]

Great discussion.

Maybe these people were not elitest..that is a strong word ( but you had to really be there to see their attitudes ). Maybe the word snobby would be better?

Ben Round De Bloc

I believe everyone has a right to their opinion and so did this crowed I was liming with. But like I said you had to be there to really get the jest of it.

BTW, there is some great information out on the World Bank and IMF and the what they have done is a travesty. Just look at Jamiacas case. Also Trinidad and Tobago sued them for illegal practices and won.

I agree, povery is a complex issue...but to have the 'tone, bodylanguage, language and gestures that denotates a distate for others based on their social status with regardless to the reasons why is sad ( But nothing new).
It is even sadder that most people (Americans) seem to be blind that their own government may have been responsible through the implementation of foriegn policy and lending institutions to certian countries.

[ls650]

[Mchristophermsw]

IS650,

I am sorry you have that impression. I am American and I love America as most people from other countries do. But also many Americans and many people from other countries do not agree with many of the governments policy.

Also, while the group in question did rub me the wrong way it was not to use that group as a sample to represent all Americans. Sorry, that I did not clearify myself sooner.

Anyhow, I respect people from all cultures including my own. And I appreciate your comments because it gave me a oppertunity to clearify.

[ls650]

I'm glad we're clear on that too. It's been my personal observation that the snobbish characteristics you describe aren't restricted to any particular group or nationality. Every country has its share of knobs.

[Guy Courchesne]

[guest of Japan]

Shouldn't we be disgusted by poverty? Not the people living in it, but the injustice of it.