Job Discussion Forums

[struelle]

Shoot, I edited my original post instead

[amandabarrick]

I am by no means an expert on the subject of student discipline, but at the high school level I try to treat my students like adults. However, occasionally students will get distracted or noisy, and get off task of what we are trying to accomplish in the classroom. In this situation I try to find the student who is leading the disorder and make an example of him by asking him to leave has usually settled the class extremely quickly. But I wouldn't discipline your students if it is not necessary. I am sure there are other ways to come across as strong and authoritative. Giving them quizzes, exams, homework, etc... This reminds them that you are in control and will decide their final grade.

AB

[Don McChesney]

Tell the bosses that you respect their views on strong authoritive control, but research has shown that learning takes place when the students actively want to learn, and find enjoyment in learning, as a positive process. Authoritive teaching may lead to negative views on the subject being taught, as it is an unpleasant class to be in.
To send any student out of class is to deny him/her the right to learn for the duration of their absence.
Maintain control by peer pressure, ie the rowdy students get the whole class punished by extra time after the bell goes, or more homework to catch up on wasted time, or whatever. Make it clear they are being punished for bad behaviour from a few. Peer pressure in a class is a poweful tool to utilise. The smart ones soon learn what is acceptable to a teacher, and pass the message on.
If your students learn, you are doing your job. If they sit silent and dumb, you are teaching discipline, not the subject you are supposed to teach.

[vikdk]

The way the word discipline is used in your post makes me wonder if you are in a teacher or dog training class?

Discipline in the classroom doesn�t need to linked to assertiveness � but rather common social norms � norms like the last poster pointed out that indicate a enjoyable stimulating learning environment should encourage enjoyable stimulating behavior. Thus the only thing you need to assert into your classes is (effective) enjoyable stimulating teaching!

I have taught traumatized refugees, young criminals, drug addicts and (by far the worse) Chinese kindergarten kids � same principle works every time � capture their interest and so-called discipline becomes a secondary matter.

[Midlothian Mapleheart]

Edited to remove offensive content.

Middy

[vikdk]

after reading some of those points the only way I'll need that report is if I'm short of toilet paper

to have a good class focus on class material not behaviour!!!

[struelle]

Thanks for these ... doing interesting classes and innovative class management is great. I pretty much agree with the idea of disciplining with dignity.

Now that I think more about what's going on, I'm looking for more of a way to show conviction as an authority figure. Trying out the steps above is a great idea, but faculty can tell if I'm just doing the behaviors for an observation. What they're after is beyond that - they want to see that I actually believe in being the boss and/or ordering people around.

Unfortunately, I am philosophically opposed to that kind of teaching, which makes it so hard to model. If I don't show conviction, however, that could cost me the program. Just 'playing the game' won't cut it with these guys either, as they're on to that view.

I'm in a bit more of a pickle than I thought, but still, there's gotta be a way to make this work. Has anyone been down a similar road?

To quote the other poster, this does feel more like dog training than teacher training But it has to be gotten through.

Steve

[vikdk]

Sorry about my last post � a bit of a rant against points 12 and 13 in that list - our Mrs. Burman seems to be in the back to basics camp - fraid that's not my cup of tea.

Not want trying to sound too dogmatic � I strongly believe that pupil behavior shouldn�t be manipulated by the use of classroom exclusion as a teaching tool. Modern liberal social thinking has long ago made exclusion a redundant concept replacing it with terms such as integration and inclusion.

However I will concede in the Chinese classroom where social politics has given us a student group that mainly comes from single child units and where pupils blindly following teachers and inappropriate curricula seem to be the rule of the day � the use of bleeding heart liberal methodology may also seem inappropriate. After all it�s easy for me to mouth off when I don�t have to daily face a class of raving middle school students. In this situation then I also must concede that it should be the teacher�s sanity that must take first priority.

How to protect our sanity and still work within the guidelines of the type of modern progressive teaching ethics that many of us respect is the million dollar question. Of course being assertive is a good thing � but being assertive with the powers above and not the powers bellow � gradually pecking away at their foundation stone of � why bother with good education when bad still makes money � will, according to my na�ve thinking, in the long term have a positive trickle down effect on classroom behavior.

[Midlothian Mapleheart]

Edited to remove offensive content.

Middy

[vikdk]

Point taken middy � each to his own way - at least as long as we have, what could normaly be regarded as, good principles and intentions behind our methods

I�d also like to add that it�s all well and good talking about the �hows and whats� of an orderly classroom, but then again all classes their teachers and their pupils are unique social and educational entities � if only they were machines things would be a lot easier.

Remember unless your classroom is a social vacuum, or you teach a class of non�impressionable saints � because you have to lay down your rules in that class, and can�t avoid being some sort of role model to your students � with your job as teacher unavoidably comes the role of social educator � you can�t get away from that one I�m afraid.

[Roger]

It seems to me most posters ignore the culturally-relevant factors governing the behaviour of our students.

What's the point of creating "stimulating learning experiences"in classrooms that hitherto never had such?
I can predict what's bound to happen: "stimulating"is misinterpreted by our young charges as a licence to behave rowdily.

Discipline is the a and O in a Chinese teacher's classroom, hence any departure from his line of action leads to a tug-of-war between you and your students for extra powers.

In another thread the rude behaviour of Chinese at public performances (musicals, cinemas etc.) has been loudly bewailed; I wholeheartedly agree with the complainants. Attend a school public English speech contest where parents come to view their own progeny in action and see how disappointingly undisciplined these so-called ADULTS are. IT's a "cultural"thing, say some; it is an uncultural thing say I.

Maybe socialism has dumbed down the whole Chinese population to this deplorable level of cultural insensitivity. But it surely is a national-Chinese feature that you must facture into your classroom management.
My Chinese colleagues in the past would excuse the noisy behaviour of their own students in my classes by saying "they don't understand you!"or "they have to translate to their neighbours what you are saying..."B.ollocks! Any simple-minded excuse is good enough for these louts to justify their uncooperative behaviour.

I conclude that teaching Wstern style is eminently different to teaching the Chinese style, and a sort of acculturation must take place for Chinese to adequately function in a classroom under Western management.

I am, for example, aghast at seeing even adult university students totally incapable of deciding what they must do in my classes; they know the rules but break them constantly, not by design but by lack of concern and not being used to shouldering their own responsibility for their own succes or FAILURE.

They almost never read up preparatory for classes (whole classes don't do that, some classes - again whole! - do it. Yes, some entire classes are composed of brighter students than other classes are.
Why this funny idea that they do not have to obey instructions that I give them orally? It is because their Chinese teachers wouldn't do it either. They read textbooks in class.

But coming to class totally unprepared steals the time of those who understand what I am talking about; every text, be it even in SIMPLIFIED ENGLISH, has new words that stumps them. I surely can't be held responsible for their own lack of understanding of words some of them may know while the majority doesn't.

The differences between our teaching style and the Chinese one certainly explains differences in socialisations: the Chinese student is ideally a meek, submissive, �bedient"(in theory) person whose mind doesn't stray from the teacher's instructions during class; the student in a Western classroom is an independent-thinking, active, questioning and challenging person, more asertive perhaps (not always desirable) but on the whole more easily rendered enthusiastic than a Chinese one. The former does what the teacher demonstrates, the latter takes over when the teacher tells him or her that it's time to do that.

[vikdk]

Wow roger that whole post could be summed up in just one of your xenophobic defeatist sentences �

[Roger]

Look, my Danish cookie, you need more help than I can afford to give you in reading between the lines of my post; I show no xenophobia - as you so quaintly put it. Maybe you don't know what that is.
For a start, it is a word borrowed from Greek. I can't think of a word more at variance with my character than this one, my Viking friend.

[Midlothian Mapleheart]

Edited to remove offensive content.

Middy

[vikdk]

thanks Roger - at least you think i'm quaint

My advice to you - stick to telling us how you spell hazlenut over the telephone - that was in British standard, American or mix and match thread - you seem to be more credible on this kind of subject.