Job Discussion Forums

[C&N]

Ok, this is going to be a long one...My girlfriend and I have been working at a University in Province "A" (sorry, going to try to remain anonymous about this!) for three months. We signed a contract ('Issued and printed by the State Administration of Foreign Experts affairs) on the first of October (although we had already been here a month before we signed this), with a kind of "make shift" clause signed by us and the head of Foreign Affairs stating that we required a probationary period of three months and then both parties would be subject to a revision of all terms in the contract.
We have just recieved our Residence Permits (new ones, stuck in passport) and Experts Cards. We have grown increasingly disappointed with the University here, and I have now been offered a job in Province "B". We are working on getting a job for my girlfriend there too, but it is proving difficult from such a distance.
I understand that in order to leave this Province to work in another one we need to be "stamped out" by the PSB, and in order to do this they may or may not require a letter from our employer. So, my questions are:
1. What is the likelyhood that the PSB will ask for a letter? (difficult to predict I know)
2. If we recieve a letter from the University letting us go and we are successfully stamped out of the Province, what rights do we have to travel around China before we are registered, etc. with a new employer in Province "B"? Will we even be able to get on a plane to Province "B" with a "stamped out" RP?
3. If the University do not co-operate and we can't get "stamped out" of the Province is our only option to do a runner to Hong Kong and get a Tourist Visa in order to start all over again? I know this is risky, and possibly our last resort. Will the Hong Kong immigration dept. issue us with a new Tourist Visa if they see a Residence Permit for Province "A" in our passports?
Think that's all for now! Pllllease respond anybody who might know anything about this! Thanks.
C&N

[therock]

Why can't tell us the two province's names? I think you would get a more helpful response if you told us which province you want to leave and which province you want to go to. Basically if you want to leave, you might need to seperation letter. Depends on the province. If all options are exhausted, then going to Hong Kong for a new visa is probably your best bet.

[C&N]

Ok, enough of the anonymous paranoid rubbish from me! The Province we want to leave is Sichuan, and the Province we want to go to is Guangdong (Zhuhai). So, be pretty close to HK.
We're only in China for a year, and we really want to make the most of it, also, these are our first "proper" jobs out of University so need to make sure we get all the "good experience" we can, and I can foresee the School in Zhuhai providing much more of this!
Will we really get a new visa in HK with a Residence Permit stuck on one of the pages in our passport...won't this promt questions form Immigration?

[Keath]

I wouldn't suggest leaving a contract unless there is a clear breach.

Generally, you have thirty days from the termination of your contract to either find other work or leave the country. Try to leave amiably with your present employer, they will most likely want to charge you the costs of the visa and other expenses of hosting you.. Some schools are ruthless about it, while others will acknowledge their shortcomings and try to make good as part of a second chance offer.

Just keep in mind, the grass isnt always going to be greener someplace else. If you've only been in China for three months, you might want to really take a deep look at what you are looking for, perhaps even travel to this new school location in advance to scout out the location, meet with the Chinese English teachers, get a feel for how they are treated and their general proficiency in English.

If you remain committed to leaving, try to settle with the school and get the letter of release. It needs to have the school chop and should be in both Chinese and English.

You should be able to travel freely with your existing residence stamps in your passport. Which includes getting on a plane - But to get a new contract working in another province, having that letter will save you some headaches.

I think that I have also read here before that some people did not require this type of letter in certain provinces.

Anyway, these things can sometimes be complicated. Best thing to do if you cannot work things out, is get a letter of release and try to settle everything on friendly terms.

EDIT: You are in sichuan and going to Zhuhai: I don't think you will have much of a problem in Zhuhai. The visa regs are more relaxed in Guandong province. Oh, and Zhuhai is quite lovely!!! A little tropical and a great place to run along the ocean.

Good Luck!

[C&N]

Cheers Keath, all good advice. I'm certain I want to teach in this new School. I'm a Design teacher, not an English teacher, so the situation is always going to be a little more specific for me. My girlfriend is an English teacher. The new School is an international Design School, good links with Europe and a good relationship with our University in the UK. The standard of students work here is so shocking, and completely uninspiring. Two of my teachers from my University in the UK taught at this new School last year and seemed to love it. I've also seen lots of photos of the campus and many examples of students work. So, very confident that what we're moving onto is right for us.
Our main concerns at the moment are getting out of here! I won't bore people with the details of why.
We do want to leave on a good note with this University, but would rather leave China all together than stay here...which would be a devastating shame!
Regarding our contract, we have never completed an appendix detailing anything, we just have this clause saying we will discuss terms at the end of November.
So, just to get a general consensus from everybody out there...if all else fails, the school won't let us go without a fight, etc., etc. is going to HK to get a new visa the worst idea ever?!

[therock]

Thats why I asked you to say the province that you were leaving because some province's are more relaxed than others. Like Keath has said Guangdong seems to be more relaxed. You might not need the letter in Guangdong.

I think the best option would be to ask you new school to apply for an invitation letter and then go to Hong Kong and apply for a new Z visa. I myself was in this situation where I re signed with my school before the end of last term. But then I found a better position in another province. The school applied and got the invitation letter and then I had to go to Hong Kong to apply for the Z visa. It shouldn't be to much of a problem. Once you apply for a new visa, the old visa is cancelled.

[C&N]

Cool, I'll put that suggestion to the new school, and plan the best way to break the news to our current employer...once we've been paid of course!
Guess it's all a matter of "wait and see".
Still haven't solved the problem of findng a job for my overly qualified and extremely intelligent English Teacher girlfriend! (hint hint any prospective Zhuhai based employers out there) I'll have to see what the new school say about offering her a position, we've also tried TPR (an American English School in Zhuhai)...but no luck as yet. Anyone know of any reputable English Schools in Zhuhai?

[therock]

When does your contract finish with your Sichuan University? If you signed for a year you might want to consider waiting for the end of this term. It is only 5 or 6 weeks. I am sure it would take the new school some time to get the invitation letters and other necessary documents.

[Roger]

You have so far received wise advice though I will take the liberty of putting it in my own words again:
- It doesn't really matter which provinces are involved, legally you must have a release letter from your current employer to snare a new employer anywhere in the country. And your old resident's permit will expire.
That said, some provinces may ignore this regulation and accept you though I doubt Guangdong is such a place. However, Zhuhai being a SEZ, you have better hopes.
Still, you ought to get your release letter (which probably means you have to defray the costs your school incurred in securing your service for them! Check your contract for the penalty).

But you do seem to be labouring under some illusion: you cannot get a resident's permit stuck in your passport while in HK! This can only be done in the mainland. I also wish to add my concern about your future job satisfaction: I very much doubt a so-called "design school" is a better work place! Wait and see! You are not an English teacher? But English will be the medium of your instruction, right? How are you going to discharge your duty in such a difficult terrain, mate?

[ebolayatollah]

C@N,

I have a question for you.

You say you and your girlfriend are just out of University and this your first "proper" job. I was wondering, have you taught before? Do you have a TESL cert or something like that? Because you mentioned you got your FEC and residence permit. I've been told by an agency that teachers need 2 years of teaching experience to get their FEC.

TIA,

Ebola

[C&N]

Ebola,
my girlfriend has a TEFLA certificate, she got it in addition to studying for her degree at University, where she had experience teaching Chinese students. I've just got a good degree and an attractive portfolio (if I do say so myself!). I'm not an authority on any of this, but I'm sure a TEFLA certificate is pretty highly regarded, so guess the teaching experience wasn't too necessary. Maybe it helps if you're British too! Although I know that most native English speakers are just as qualified to teach English, it seems it's more favourable to come from the "Royal Counties"!!
Roger,
Cheers for the advice. I should have been clearer, I was suggesting getting a tourist visa in HK and starting the whole process again after this shambles is over.
The reputation of the Design School is not in question here, and pretentious as it may sound Graphic Design has proven fairly easy to teach here as it's so visually orientated...I've found ways round the language barrier, and we're always learning Chinese as we go along.

[ebolayatollah]

[Babala]

I know you said that you didn't want to get into it but the main question is did your school breach your contract? If they did not then the responsible thing to do is to finish your contract.

[C&N]

Babala,
the thing is I think our contract is just a standard template kind of contract issued by Foreign Expert Affairs. It's so vague, no details about hours of work, living conditions, etc. just our salary and the duration of the contract (for one year, although we were assured this contract was just to get our Experts Cards and keep the authorities happy, and that they knew we had no intention of staying a full year - as we'd said we wanted to do some travelling, etc.)
When we signed it we were told that all the details would be negotiated later and laid out in an appendix. There's a section in this contract which states; 'The appendix of this contract is an inseperable part of the contract and has equal effect'.
The only thing that resembles an appendix is the piece of paper we have stating that we wish to have a probationary period, at the end of which we can review all terms of the contract...confused? Hope not.
So, I guess either party could find it equally easy or difficult to prove the contract had been breached if they wished, as it doesn't really state any regulations that could be breached!
We've got plenty of complaints, wether or not they would act as a breach of contract I don't know, because it's so vague.
One thing I would like to have clarified is...if the PSB in Sichuan agree to stamp us out of the Province without a Release Letter, do we still need the Schools official permission to leave, in order to sucessfully complete all paperwork in Zhuhai?

[Babala]

I have to admit that I am unclear about the legalities of your situation. Have you approached your school and told them that now that 3 month period is about to end that you have chosen not to stay. Perhaps offering to pay them back the expenses that they have incurred on your behalf would make them more willing to give you a release letter.

Note to newbies : Don't sign any contract before it is fully completed with an appendix attached.