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| How important is grammar in second language acquisition? |
| Essential |
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38% |
[ 10 ] |
| Very Important |
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30% |
[ 8 ] |
| Somewhat Important |
|
23% |
[ 6 ] |
| Not Very Important |
|
7% |
[ 2 ] |
| Not At All Important |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 26 |
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| Author |
Message |
dduck
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 422
Location: In the middle
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 Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
Usually because these same students are ashamed that they don't understand, and they won't ask. Furthermore, they won't bring a dictionary to class, they just pretend to understand and then usually get lost and can't follow anything.
Usually what happens is that these students are placed in classes with more advanced students, and those students tend to dominate the class, leaving the lower level students grasping for straws, confused, frustrated and too shy to ask. They will ultimately drop out, claiming that English is too difficult and or that the teacher is bad. |
This sounds very similar to my experiences here in Mexico. For example, I inherited an adult elementary class where the students couldn't even understand the simplist of question. Sad considering the students are supposed to be halfway through the elementary level. In the end I had to ditch my whole lesson and start doing the basics again, in Spanish!
Iain |
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xnihil
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 92
Location: Egypt
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 5:39 pm Post subject: my two cents |
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I know I'm joining this thread way late in the game and some of these (really long!!) posts I've only skimmed so my apologies if I'm repeating someone else's ideas.
Bertrand wrote:
| Quote: |
Capergirl wrote:
spelling, punctuation, grammar, sentence structure, and eventually, paragraph organization and essay format. Second language acquisition should not be any different. How does one learn to read, write, and speak a language properly without learning the basic structures of the language? Can a language simply be absorbed as though by osmosis?
Yes, by infants within the critical period. You really need to conduct some (introductory) reading in child language acquisition before you start lecturing on second language learning (which, I presume, you have never studied for more than, say, 40 hours). Although 'motherese' is a central feature of western middle class societies, on many cultures around the globe infants do not benefit from any special registers and, in fact, in some cultures documented both by generative linguists and anthropological researchers they are not even spoken to! |
Betrand's early, lengthy post refutes the idea of teaching grammar because Infants learn language without learning grammar? Great! Now we know how to teach infants an L1. Now let's get back to the topic.
In addition to the good points that have been made in abundance here, I have two reasons for teaching grammar in the classroom:
1. Students feel that they are actually learning something.
This may seem silly but ESL students (myself included) often feel frusterated because their learning accomplishments are not easily measurable. They feel that they are wasting their time, even if their language is improving dramatically. Learning discrete grammar lessons, even if it didn't demostrably improve their language skills, improves the students' attitudes about learning. This is a noble result independant of any other pedagogical purpose.
2. I find that when I have a piece of information that a student wants to learn, and I successfully impart that information, the very process of communication has an educational benefit. In one sense, it doesn't really matter what we are talking about, as long as we are exchanging information in our target language, language acquisition is occurring. In my humble opinion, I could just as easily be teaching economics, or sub-aquatic fiber manipulation (underwater basket weaving) as long as the students feel that what I have to teach is of value, they will work to understand (and speak so that I understand) and learning will take place. With that in mind, why not teach grammar? Its a subject I'm interested in, and many of my students are as well. I can't see that it does any harm.
Anyway, that's my opinion. Oops! I see that my post turned out to be as long and pompous as the others in this thread. Occupational hazard, I suppose.  |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:11 am Post subject: |
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With my apologies to Dr. Bertrand, I have to add that I don't think his post was meant to say that we should avoid teaching grammar, on the contrary. After re-reading his posts I finally understood at least some of the points he was getting at. (I am a long way from being a linguist) He was trying to make us think about "the way we teach grammar" and not "if" we should teach it.
The grammar of everyday speach is still grammar, whether or not it came out of some text or not.
I don't agree that we should teach adult learners in the same way that we teach children. Many studies have shown vast differences in the way adults learn an L2 compaired with children. This doesn't mean we can't learn something in the same way a child does, it just means it is harder for us as adults.
We, as adults, are impatient. We want rules and facts that we can wrap our brains around. This gives us some security, and makes us feel like we are learning something. This is where grammar rules can be helpful to us. (bearing in mind the countless exceptions in English) The rules help us learn.
Too many young teachers (myself included) think that because there are so many exceptions that we should avoid teaching rules altogether. I don't agree, but I do think that over-emphasis on rules can be detrimental to learning at times.
Anyway, I'm babbling now, so I'd best be on my way.
Cheers
Some waygug-in |
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waxwing
Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 719
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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On this topic, I have to mention the wonderful book I recently bought "Explaining English Grammar" by George Yule. Has anyone else here read it?
It basically gives details of all those annoying grey areas of grammar and, by digging a little deeper than usual, suggests ways of explaining the exceptions.
Each chapter starts with typical questions that learners ask / typical errors that learners make - the type that are annoyingly hard to explain.
Two examples:
"Language learners always want to say * She enjoys to go. Why do we have to say She enjoys going, but we can't say * She wants going? "
"Is there any way of explaining why English speakers have to fall in love and not on love or at love?"
anyway just a recommendation  |
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