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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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 Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: EF (English First) Ningbo? |
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There is even an EF banner on that site vikdk but you seem to have missed that in your typical lack of concern for facts. What does that mean? Oh, Clark must be in EF's back pocket! Yeah right! I suggest that you contact the EF schools and ask them about the relationship between that chain and the site that I work with as you may be quite surprised by the facts and how wrong you are. Your lack of facts certainly makes me question the credibility of your posts here at Daves, but as this thread is neither about you nor me I suggest that we discuss the topic of this thread which is EF Ningbo. So what do you have to say about EF Ningbo?
| englishgibson wrote: |
| Unbelievable that some like Clark W Griswald, Roger etc will keep on coming back on EF related threads and �contaminate� these threads with their opinions, and confrontational approach with EF experienced users on. |
I will let Roger speak for himself, but in my case my comments do not contaminate the thread at all. It is generalized posts such as yours that claim that ALL EF schools should be avoided based upon some teachers bad experiences at some schools that are misleading and 'contaminate' EF threads.
So Englishgibson and vikdk here is my point and the point that you should be arguing. If you believe that it is wrong then explain WHY it is wrong:
1. My opinion on EF has always been that it is a large chain and that individual teacher experiences will vary at individual schools in the chain.
2. Claims that ALL EF schools should be avoided are unhelpful as they fail to provide specific information about specific schools in the chain.
3. I have never stated that EF is a great company and that everyone should work there, but I have yet to see any compelling reason why anyone should avoid any but the worst of the EF schools.
4. Considering the worse treatment of teachers at some schools in China I certainly believe that EF offers reasonably safe opportunities particularly for teachers who are new to China.
5. Until one of the people who claims that we should 'avoid EF at all costs' can explain to me WHY we should avoid all EF schools I will continue to question these posts.
So Englishgibson here is your chance to lay it out in a point by point reply as to why foreign teachers should not work for any EF schools. Let's avoid the discussions of the politics of head office this time around. I am not saying that these discussions are invalid, but it is certainly unclear to me how these politics affect the average teacher in the average EF school.
Also, when warning teachers about EF I suggest that we use other schools in China as our yardstick. When we do so we can see that many of the 'problems' experienced by teachers at EF schools are not restricted to that chain and are actually common situations in schools in China. That said, I would like to know why people such as Englishgibson don't just go the whole way and suggest that we avoid ALL SCHOOLS in China!  |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| one last question clark - when you write in that buxiban site do you add a link to to dave's on all your posts? |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| vikdk wrote: |
| one last question clark - when you write in that buxiban site do you add a link to to dave's on all your posts? |
So I take it that you really don't have anything to add to this discussion on EF, which begs the question as to why you even bother posting in this thread 
In answer to your question, yes there is a link to ESL Cafe on every page of the site that I am involved with. Daves has a banner graphic that appears on every single page of our site. Ooops vikdk, you failed to research again 
Below is something that I put together for a seperate thread on EF:
So here is the list. Please don�t complain about comments that aren�t on the list as really anyone could have compiled this list but it seems that nobody wanted to. If you feel that there is a valid comment that should be added to the list then please let me know and I will add it. Additionally, this might be a good chance for people to post about their personal experiences at particular schools, be they good or bad.
EF Shengyang � Question raised about a scandal (Bertrand), suggested by (Xiaoyu) that no such scandal existed based upon reports from friends who worked there.
Negative Experiences
EF Huizhou � No details (Bertrand), extensive details (Keath), (englishgibson)
EF Yiwu � No details (yvechina)
EF Nanchang � detailed post (bgreytalk)
EF Wuhan � detailed post (J9)
EF Wuhan (Hankou) � bad management (Chris Crossley)
EF Urumuqi � detailed post (tifanjo), (tom selleck)
EF Hangzhou � detailed post (Alani), (brsmith15)
EF Yuyao � gulam2
EF Zhuhai � balrog, darius
Good Experiences
EF Dalian � (deezy)
EF Hangzhou � detailed post (Noelle)
EF Hefei � third party report (Noelle)
EF Kunming � (no_exit), (deezy)
EF Pudong � (matador)
EF Qingdao � based on location (tw), (deezy)
EF Suzhou � third party report (Noelle)
EF Urumuqi � detailed report (CathB)
EF Weihai � (deezy)
EF Wuhan � detailed post (J9), (gulam2), (englishgibson)
EF Wuhan (Hankou) � good teaching experience (Chris Crossley)
EF Wuxi � third party report (Noelle), (babala)
EF Xi�an � third party report (Noelle)
EF Xiaoshan � detailed post (dreaming_saturn)
EF Zhuhai - positive comment by PM (Keath)
NB: The EF Yuyao school actually contacted me about the complaint made by Gulam2 and from the extensive answers that they gave it seems apparent that his complaint is less than legitimate so we can probably ignore that complaint.
Last edited by clark.w.griswald on Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:06 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:02 am Post subject: Re: EF (English First) Ningbo? |
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| englishgibson wrote: |
Unbelievable that some like Clark W Griswald, Roger etc will keep on coming back on EF related threads and �contaminate� these threads with their opinions, and confrontational approach with EF experienced users on. They�ll discuss who knows what endlessly on and on. Clark and Roger, why don't you just join one, at least one EF center in China and experience it for yourselves. But hell with your qualities, you might as well apply for that EF Head Office positions there 
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Englishgibson,
I have a question for you!
Why does an English teacher of your standing use quotation marks ('') around the verb 'contaminate'?
I am asking this question because you were saying I - among some - "contaminate" threads like this with my opinions. I have never claimed to be 'contaminating' any forum or thread. SO why did you use that verb, and why did you gratuitiously add those quotation marks? Do you experience some reading troubles from time to time?
And for your information: I will go on acting as a poster with a conscience, as one of the checks and balances of which such a forum has a huge need!
We all want this to be an honest discussion, not an exercise in ostracising certain members of the public or certain employers (without ostracising their competitiors). We don't want a free-for-all, do we?
Look, I accept you got burnt by those Huizhou bosses of yours and I have never questioned the veracity of your various allegations; but you are obviously taking on the entire EF in the whole of China, and I for one feel you are acting way over the top!
And judging by the people who help you do this I would say you are losing this battle and the whole war! |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| well to end our little chit-chat all you have to do is add a post without those links - then maybe people could take your opinions as those from a unbiased bystander rather than a person with a vested interest in giving pro comments on EF |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| vikdk wrote: |
| well to end our little chit-chat all you have to do is add a post without those links - then maybe people could take your opinions as those from a unbiased bystander rather than a person with a vested interest in giving pro comments on EF |
And if you knew what you were talking about you would know that I have participated on this forum for close to five years, and only for the last two have I been involved with that other site. My opinions haven't changed since my involvement there and this is evident if you read my posts from five years back to date. I challenge you to provide evidence that I have a bias at all, or is your gripe merely based upon the fact that I disagree with you and am actually able to argue a point rather than try to put up smokescreens?
Oh, and if you don't like the links on my signature then don't click on them! I would have thought that it was pretty obvious that there is free and very pertinent information available there if someone wants it but if you don't then that's fine by me! |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:16 am Post subject: |
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evidence - the only evidence we have so far is that those darn links are still there, and lnk up with advertisments for EF.
try harder Clark - yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| vikdk wrote: |
evidence - the only evidence we have so far is that those darn links are still there, and lnk up with advertisments for EF.
try harder Clark - yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn |
Yes that's right vikdk. English First are listed on that directory, along with about 4,000 other schools. That is the whole point of that site afterall. A list that teachers can add comments to about their individual experiences at specific schools. It would seem pretty pointless to exclude some schools from the list as then there would be no information about these schools available which may result in teachers inadvertently ending up at bad schools.
If however you personally want a list of schools in China without English First included in the list then knock your socks off. No one is stopping you from putting together your own list.
I must admit that I am a bit slow on the uptake sometimes. I only just realized that the reaon that you add the word 'Yawn' at the end of your posts must be because by the time you finish writing the uninformative drivel that you so often post here that even you feel bored with what you wrote. Imagine how the rest of us feel. 
And vikdk's views on English First are.....? |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:18 am Post subject: EF (English First) Ningbo? |
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Unbelievable!
Cheers and beers (to Clark, his EF list and Roger too)
___________________________________________________________
P.S.
There was the “Schindler’s List” once. And there is the “Clark’s EF List” now. I hope they’ll make a movie out of this one. However, the director should give it a name “Who says a blind man needs a dog?" |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks, englishgibson, for the cheers; the beer better remain in the fridge since it's too cold for me to down that! I prefer a mocha decaf - hot, of course! |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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wow the shooting has stopped - like christmas day in the trenches - lets go and have a game of football in no-mans land
most entertaining thread in ages - congrats to everyone involved - we've done the cafe proud - keep up the good work lads - but be alert you never know what'll be around the next corner  |
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IanMWashburn
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 61
Location: As of February 2009 - Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject: Request for information |
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Greetings:
I am interested in receiving any information regarding problems with EF China operations, especially litigative histories and specific instances of involvment by governmental regulatory and law-enforcement agencies. All information will be kept in strictist confidence.
One reason why many current employees of EF franchisees in China refrain from posting, is that there exists a confidentiality agreement, which provides that sharing any information about EF operations is a material breach of the employment contract and subjects the employee to immediate contract dissolution.
EF Education BV, the parent company, is registered as a Dutch, not a British, entity. The China operations are administered from Hong Kong. This is public information.
Please contact me with any relevant facts:
Ian Mackenzie Washburn, M.A.
University of Cambridge CELTA
Shanghai, P.R.C.
mobile - 13162751205
voice/fax - 54040755
e-mail & IM - [email protected]
IM only: [email protected] |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:17 am Post subject: |
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wow so gregor really is the company stooge - when writing here he knew full well he was probally going to be unoppossed by nervous current employees - even when challenged about lack of comments from current workers, he said he didn't know why - Confidentiality, can't tell what's going on in the company, EF really does smell of something 
Hey greg are you the chief of the detective squad who try and piece together the identities of any EF deviants who are brave enough to add a comment here? |
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IanMWashburn
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 61
Location: As of February 2009 - Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| Duh... |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| why the duh ???? Can't i be sceptical about a company which employs a confidentiality clause? what are EF scared of - somebody giving the burger recipe away? |
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