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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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 Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| Gregor, is that the best you can come up with - you don't want to answer any of my points - well at least you got another freebee ad online - but I suppose in the long run that's all EF is interested in - saving money to make more of it:lol: |
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Gregor
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 842
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| Gregor, is that the best you can come up with - you don't want to answer any of my points |
Make a new and valid point, and I will happily answer it. As long as you're just yanking my chain, though, I don't see the point. It's clear enough to anyone reading this that that's all you're doing, so what's to respond to? |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 4:12 am Post subject: |
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I did make 4 points - which you didn't respond to - hope EF are paying you overtime for this  |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| Gregor wrote: |
| But I don't see how EF is such a bad deal, unless you just don't want to work. It's decent (i.e. not exceptionally high, but not bad) pay, it's reliable and secure, and usually the schools are supportive. |
I think that this is the essence of the discussion about EF and something that the naysayers have never been able to dispute. Until such time as anyone can show why Gregor is wrong in his statement above then I believe that most reasonable people will see through the mud that is being flung in the direction of that organization.
The fact is that with the exception of a few EF schools, EF offers stability which is something that can be a real asset to newbies. If you feel that you are an experienced teacher and don't need what EF no doubt has to offer then you are free to find work elsewhere, but please don't insult everyones intelligence by suggesting that every EF school should be avoided.
As far as pay rates, well I have suggested before that EF requires a lot of hours for not a very high wage, but we need to balance this out with the fact that EF schools generally offer good numbers of hours each month and the curriculum, support, and training that can really benefit teachers. There is an inherent value in this to many teachers.
Of course there are no doubt schools that pay more per hour than EF but I doubt that they offer what EF has to offer. RMB150 an hour may sound great, but if it is a one or two hour block and you have no curriculum to follow or if you have to travel around between schools just to get enough hours to make ends meet, it seems like a false economy to me. |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:35 am Post subject: ...... |
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| Quote: |
| The fact is that with the exception of a few EF schools, EF offers stability which is something that can be a real asset to newbies. If you feel that you are an experienced teacher and don't need what EF no doubt has to offer then you are free to find work elsewhere, but please don't insult everyones intelligence by suggesting that every EF school should be avoided. |
good post. i worked for a similar type of school in taiwan. news of (mainly unsubstantiated) problems/ripoffs at one or two branches spread thru the country like wildfire. no reason to disparage every school bearing the same name. |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:12 am Post subject: |
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I spy the recruiters smoke screen slowly starting to waft over this thread  |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| vikdk wrote: |
LAs for going back home - no thanks - I have a car, a 2 storey apartment with garden, and am in the process of renting a small farm as a weekend place - and this is not to mention my new Chinese family and my well paying TESOL business. Why should I go back - why should I be quite about these things - why shouldn't I tell other FT's - why should I be bullied into thinking the old guard here are always right -
Guys I'm living in China - not just passing through - I'm just telling you there is an alternative - and that many of you are probally being ripped off - but obviously the likes of anthyp don't want me to spill the beans.
7969 in the panzihua thread (or whatever that city is called) y[/b] |
It's nice talking to you, Danish cookie, but you ought at least get your geography right!
I can imagine a Dane buying a farm in Alsace - you can make a round trip every weekend if you like, to enjoy simple rustical living conditions and relax from your hectic city life in Cobenhavn.
Or if you live in Germany, you might consider ownership of a small Tuscany ferma and grow merlot, olives, lemons as a hobby.
But owning or renting a "farm" in China??? OK, some of you guys are insane, that we have noticed a while back; but either you are totally crazy or you have forgotten where you are.
And since you know no Chinese, it is hilarious to read of your "family" here...
Well, perhaps you are an adopted foreign child, who knows? Cute little blondies go well with Chinese single-child parents. Of course, you can now roam the streets of grotty Shenzhen and market your English skills - which, judging by your writing style here, is a little shaky.
It's thoroughly possible for you to "make money", 100 or 230 yuan an hour; by all means, do cash in whenever it is possible, leaner years are ahead of everybody.
You will need that extra dough to tide you over hard times; if you have adopted Chinese family status and citizensyhip you won't be going back to Denmark and its Carlsberg and Danish cookies. Anyway, you are privileged because you won't have to line up for a work visa and residence permit - you are a resident even if you don't know where Panzhihua is.
Meanwhile, the majority of posters and readers got their first job the legal way, and that inevitably means they had to settle for the "pittance" their local boss offered, which was competitive enough anyway, judging by the fact that you can meet former lawyers, journalists, writers, architects, beside policemen, truck drivers, GIs and oddballs such as vikdk in the profession.
If you have very good qualifications you will be eligible for a job with an international school, and you can teach using your professional conscience - not only does this pay much better, you also can use your skills according to your own judgement rather than to the judgement of your employers or your "clients" the Chinese students and their parents.
But vikdk has never worked in an international school. That's why he is so bitter! |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| ohhhh goody his rogerness is back - so subjective - so many presumptions - how much has he got right how much has he got wrong - but who really cares 'cause his comic style relies on effect rather than hard fact - but how much control does he have over that effect - chill out man can't be too good for your health all this ranting |
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Nauczyciel
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 319
Location: www.commonwealth.pl
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| Roger wrote: |
| I have had a Polish professor friend for a couple of months on loan to a Guangzhou university; he said his Warsaw salary was lower than his CHinese one. (The university paid him 5500 a month, housed him for free and allowed him to use the telephone for local calls for free; food also was subsidised and he had no transport costs. He could save four fifths of his monthly pay. |
State-run schools in Poland pay peanuts - that's true  . I know teachers at primary and high schools who work a 20-hour week (in my province it's the limit set up by the privincial office of education - if you teach more than 20 lessons a week, they say, your teaching is no longer effective) and they earn half of what I earn here at a college/university (not to mention I work 16 hours and have a free decent apartment). By contrast though, I worked the same 20 hours in a private Polish language school and earned more than I earn here in China (4000RMB).
Why am I in China if I could easily earn more back in Poland? Because I'm only 26 and my aim is an academic carrer in Poland. No, not at a state-owned university, although there is a certain level of respect coming with this job. There are hundreds of private Polish colleges and universities that pay reasonably well and the experience I'm gaining now in China will look just great on my CV |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| good on ya nauczyciel - just wanted to tell you that first time I was in china in 87 I met a few poles thumbing their way arround - it was so cheap in those days, we were trying to live for 1 pound a day, but these guys were on real budget holidays, the old zloty didn't go far - we always enjoyed their company |
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erinyes
Joined: 02 Oct 2005
Posts: 272
Location: GuangDong, GaoZhou
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:47 am Post subject: irony |
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| irony = a post labled "too much information' quickly becomes 4 pages long |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| looks like poor ol' larry hit the jackpot - I wonder if we've put him off |
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