Job Discussion Forums

[Saudi4Ever]

I was informed that without a Masters degree no matter how much experience you have teaching in the Gulf, iqamas can not be issued. Does anyone know if this is true. I heard it is a new rule because of saudization.

Do you think that this is enforced or just put out there to attract quality applicants?

Stephen Jones can you give your 2 riyals worth?

[scot47]

not true

it helps if you have an MA but it is not necessary

PM me if you want more gen.

[Stephen Jones]

You won't get your wife over without a BA.

I would think they insist on a BA for teaching in schools, though they do not check up on whether they are legitimate or nor before issuing the visa or the iqama.

I know of quite a few language instructors in industry who do not have a degree.

[Saudi4Ever]

Thanks Scott

Stephen, I was asking about a masters. I know someone with a BA and a tefl certificate that is currently teaching at a very good job in Saui and has a lot of experience including having written several books. We were told that he would not be able to get a job at Taibah University without a Masters as they have said that only expats with masters can be issued iqamas.

I was wondering how true is that or if the right person came along would they make an exception or is it a strict policy?

[Stephen Jones]

Presuming the information given is correct I can only presume that the particular job description they have a vacancy for is one that requires a Masters.

I would be more inclined to believe however that it is the University regulations that prevent your friend from being hired, and that what they mean is that, whilst they could take him as a contractor they could not offer a job under their sponsorship.

[Saudi4Ever]

Thank you Stephen. That appears to be the case. The job is listed here on Dave's. They ask that the person has a Masters, but the position is at their ELC. Doesn't seem like that position requires a Masters and yes they do allow non masters to worl there providing they have another sponsor.

I was just wondering how stringent are these policies, because we have seen no real pattern in hiring. I know people who applied for jobs that asked for Masters but were hired based on their experience without a Masters. Go figure.

Hey Scot! I saw that I spelled your name earlier with two T's. I'm sorry

[Bebsi]

This stuff about MAs that you have heard is all a load of Bollax.

It is true however, that some universities (not all by any means, however) insist on an MA. Usually, some cretin with far more wasta than ability, in charge of a department, has this idea in his head that unless you've got a masters, then you are incapable of teaching English. A load of nonsense, which has sadly taken deep root in some other Gulf states such as UAE. People with Trinity Dips and DELTAs...commonly regarded as higher-level TEFL/TESOL industry standard quals, are being rejected because they involve the term "diploma"...whereas mention of a "masters" conjures up images of prestige, higher learning, academic excellence etc.

In reality, a masters is a theory-research qualification that has no bearing on classroom teaching ability whatsoever. A DELTA or equivalent, on the other hand, is awarded not just on the basis of written assignments, but a stringent examination and an even more stringent assessment/observation of actual classroom teaching. In UK third-level institutions, a DELTA is taken very seriously indeeed while an MA, of itself, is at best treated with indifference and at worst frowned upon. I refer here purely to EFL/ESL teaching, and not academic research positions, which are a different matter.

I know some people in the Gulf with masters degrees in such areas as philosophy, English Literature and agricultural economics, and perhaps five years or less teaching experience, earning significantly more than colleagues with teaching Diplomas and ten years or more experience, for doing the exact same job in adjacent classrooms. Just another quirk of Gulf eccentricity and, dare I say, ignorance.

Back to the original question tho: no, you don't need a masters to get an Iqama. If that rule does change, someone please let me know so I can speed up the print run on those MAs/PhDs. I can award you a very nice post-grad qualification based on your life experience, which will probably pass muster in most Arabian establishments, with a few reputable exceptions.

[Bint Muhammad]

So i've decided to take up a TEFL program offered at a private university in My state. I'm also working on a Nursing degree however in the mean time i want to try out something different like teach english in KSA, with a TEFL certificate from a private University (Hamline University). What are my possibilities of getting a job with it?? All advice needed, thanx
!

[usool]

Hello

I must muster a disagreement here. MA's are theoretically based but to suggest that the 3 month DELTA diploma offers greater preparation for the language classroom is perhaps a touch below reality. University lecturers of all disciplines are usually required to have not only an MA but a PhD. This is the case worldwide in all universities of any repute, why English language lecturers believe they should have some dispensation in this regard mystifies me. We are fortunate that an MA is accepted, it would be par for the course to ask for a PhD. The only reason they don�t is lack of supply.

I 'studied' the CELTA prior to my MA and I can�t think of a more worthless qualification and a complete rip-off at 1K sterling. The DELTA is essentially more of the same old rubbish.

Regards and best wishes

[Bebsi]

I take Usool's point about most academic positions genuinely requiring an MA or PhD. This is because most academic teaching positions require a specialised knowledge of the subject at hand but relatively little in the way of specialised teaching skills. If you are going to lecture in, for example, ancient civilisations, specialised knowledge of the subject at masters or doctoral level is normally required. However, because the presentation of the requisite knowledge is in lecture format, being simply a one-way oral presentation, specific teaching skills are not an issue. Even for tutorials, the question doesn't really arise.

However, most EFL/ESOL teaching is that: TEACHING. It is not lecturing. Classroom language teaching is a two-way process that indeed requires very specific teaching skills. It does not, under normal circumstances, require a specialised knowledge of linguistics or other areas, by any means. Therefore, the skills required by a teacher are classroom teaching skills. These can only be taught interactively, in other words, a learning-by-doing situation. Observed teaching-practice, peer observation and 2-way lesson presentation are all vital elements of this training process. To suggest otherwise is naive.

To put it in perspective: what relevance does an in-depth knowledge of Skinner's Behaviourist theories have for someone teaching the Present Perfect to a group of students, whether a mixed group in the UK, a group of Greek teenagers, or a class of Gulf university students? None, I would say! OK, if you are teaching advanced linguistics, yes, an MA may very well be relevant, but here we are talking about standard TEFL/TESOL. That includes the Gulf. In most mid-east teaching situations, including the third-level institutions, what happens in the English language classroom is normal TEFL. For this, a practical teaching qualification as opposed to a purely theoretical one is of far greater value and relevance. To use an anology I have used in other postings, an MA for classroom TEFL is a bit like expecting a car-mechanic to have a PhD in mechanical engineering principles.

Sadly, many people working in Gulf third-level TEFL/TESOL see themselves as academics. Perhaps this is a result of the hype surrounding the Gulf recruitment process regarding qualifications, or maybe a delusional state developed by people whose ambitions exceed their actual position. An MA, much less a PhD, is utterly unnecessary when trying to teach someone to say, for example, "My name is Abdullah, I am a student". However, teaching Abdullah even to say this, requires certain skills that are practical, not academic. Any contrary viewpoint is deluded. We are not academics, we are classroom technicians.

With all due respect, Usool, the truth is that the MA is seen as a prestige qualification in Gulf academia, mainly by non-TEFL qualified, non-native speaking administrators. Expat EFL teachers coming to work here, in the main, acquire an MA simply in order improve job prospects and hopefully, get a higher salary. I have rarely met anyone for whom an MA represented any real improvement in their ability to do the job of teaching, or a serious development of their own skills. It is, to the majority (certainly the ones I have met over the years) another notch on the CV. Indeed, typically the opinion has been that the MA in itself made no difference whatsoever to their ability to do the job in the classroom. I have no doubt that it is purely a coincidence, but most of the exceptions to the above, namely those who took their MA a bit too seriously, have been people who wouldn't teach a starving dog to beg for a bone! Maybe it wasn't a concidence; perhaps they were so caught-up in their knowledge of theory that they missed the enormous importance of practical teaching skills.

It so happens that the worst teacher I ever met (in TEFL, some achievement, believe me!) was indeed a PhD.

In most countries outside the Gulf, CELTA/DELTA/Trinity are seen as far more beneficial and practical, most notably in Europe. Indeed, even in most UK universities, the DELTA/Trinity Dip are regarded as significantly better teaching qualifications than any MA. This is because they ARE teaching quals, as opposed to quals in theoretical studies.

Let's face it folks: TEFL is not a higher-profession, it is an industry. Sadly, it is one where there is still no standard teacher-certification. Perhaps its international nature makes this impossible.

[shadowfax]

The standard tefl certificate is sufficient to impart a basis for teaching skills, which are subsequently developed and refined through teaching and interaction with colleagues. Some of the most brilliant didacts I have encountered were university lecturers and professors without any manner of diploma in teaching methodology.
It is safe to assume that a person with an MA or PhD from a quality institution is easily capable of developing these skills without further diplomas, etc., in teaching. After all, one of the principle goals of MAs and PhD's is to demonstrate and enhance one's ability to attain high intellectual and procedural standards autonomously. In turn, people possessed of such an education are also prepared to pass on the skills of autonomous and self-motivated study to their students. They are also less likely to fall into the pitfalls of that dogmatic and restricted thinking which adversely affects many institutions, especially in the private sector of ELT. In too many places, students lose sight of their own responsibilities in the learning process because of the specious and sophistical trumpeting of pedagogical buzzwords and jargon, which creates a nanny state within classroom and department.
It would be pointless of me to dispute bebsi's subjective reports of his own experiences of people with or without such qualifications.
I can only say that those abilities of creativity, independent thought (corroborated with scholarly and logical evidencing), originality, and academic discipline which are tested by post-graduate degrees, are highly apt to empower and enhance natural teaching abilities. There are exceptions, yes; but bebsi seems to be taking the exception for the rule, and it seems his own lack of a post-graduate degree is causing him to grind and whet a very blunderous axe against one of the mainstays of educated society these last 6 hundred years at least.

[usool]

I was thinking of writing a response to Bebsi then read what Shadowfax had to say and found myself unable to coherently articulate my view in any way that would add to his commendable assertions. I think the term in use is 'hit the nail on the head'.

Regards

[usool]

I was thinking of writing a response to Bebsi then read what Shadowfax had to say and found myself unable to coherently articulate my view in any way that would add to his commendable assertions. I think the term in use is 'hit the nail on the head'.

Anybody interested in this particular angle may read the following:

Bax, S. (2003). The End of CLT: a Context Approach to Language Teaching. ELT Journal, 57,3, 278-287

Regards

[Bebsi]

.......

[Bebsi]