Job Discussion Forums

[Idioteque]

Hello everybody!

I'm brand new to posting on this forum, but I've been checking out the site for several weeks now, and it's absolutely excellent! Very informative, and everybody seems really helpful, patient, and willing to take the time to answer questions (especially from us newbies).

My questions essentially have to do with racism in Asia and Europe. I apologize in advance if you've had to read about this over and over, but I haven't been able to find too much in regards to my specific situation. I'd really appreciate any input.

I was born and raised in Canada, (thus I have a Canadian accent), my background is East Indian, I'm a 25 year old female, I have a bachelor's degree and I'm currently working towards my TESL certificate. I don't have any teaching experience but part of my program involves classroom observation and assisting the ESL teacher in charge (so I will get ESL classroom experience). I'm planning on heading to either Asia or Europe by Sept. '06 (I don't have an EU passport, which I realize is a whole different issue) to teach either children or adults, and my boyfriend (who is white), is coming with me (though not to teach English).

So here are some of my questions (with respect to Europe and/or Asia): How often, (if at all) will we encounter explicit racism as an interracial couple, and in what capacity? Might it be difficult for me to find a well-paying job and be respected in the classroom being a young, brown-skinned, female ESL teacher? (a native speaker with qualifications, mind you). Is it likely that I won�t get a job before I arrive in the country, because of my skin colour/gender? The countries that I am most interested in are Spain, Italy, China, Japan and Korea � but I�m willing to teach anywhere in Europe or Asia if it means that I feel more comfortable and my students/supervisor are accepting of non-white teachers. For those of you who are in a similar situation, have you found that certain countries/cities are more accepting of non-white English teachers and interracial couples?
Also, my TESL certificate is focused on teaching to adults - how do I go about finding a job at a college/university (ie. do they often post jobs online? Or is it easier to look for those jobs in person?) Lastly, my boyfriend is interested in finding a job at a restaurant or a bar (he cooks, serves and bartends) � how likely is that to happen in a foreign when English is his only language?

I realize that that was a lot of questions and I hope I didn't overwhelm anybody (other than myself!)
If anybody could start to answer those questions, share their experiences with respect to racism and recommend certain countries/cities/schools in Europe and/or Asia, it would be greatly, greatly appreciated!

Cheers.

[Glenski]

[Jizzo T. Clown]

I think you'd only encounter racism if you were dating a local (even then, mainly if you're a man dating a local lady!).

As for working in the EU (as has been discussed several times before), I wouldn't count on it. Better set your sites on Asia.

In China, I knew several teachers who were not from English-speaking countries, including Poland, England (oh, wait... ) er, Africa, Phillipines, and Brazil. They had no problems with either racism or, apparently, getting a job.

It seems to me that your boyfriend would make a lot more money teaching than working in a bar (that is, of course, if he's eligible to teach). I can only speak for China and Japan, but I think you have to have a good command of the language to get a job outside of teaching. That being said, I did know some people who were working in the hotel business, as hostesses, and in restaurants, but they all knew how to speak the local language and/or had a degree and extensive experience in their fields.

In Asia, you'll most likely have to teach children. Even if you hold a CELTA or similar qualification, I haven't known anyone working in a private language school who didn't have children as the majority of their students.

[PAULH]

For what its worth, many of the large chain conversation schools in Japan employ non-whites, not just vanilla, As long as you have a Canadian passport and a degree you should be OK. Two months ago i met a foreign student from India teaching in an elementary school, so it does happen.

With a BA you probably wouldnt even get an interview at a university in Japan. A Masters is a minimum. They do advertise online but many ads are in Japanese and you have to know people to hear about them. that means living here and keeping your ear to the ground. Straight off the plane I cant see that happening.


There are foreign waiters and barmen but they are usually nationals of countries working in ethnic restaurants e.g. Africans, South Americans. Needless to say you need a valid work visa and a sponsor. A plain vanilla guy may have trouble unless he has special skills e.g. a sommelier.

[Justin Trullinger]

At entry level, for teaching adults you're more likely to wind up in a private language school than college/university.

As a Canadian, you'll have a hard time working legally in Spain, or really most of the EU. Spain may be harder than most, as school owners there seem to prefer to avoid paperwork. There are quite a lot of non-EU citizens working there. Illegally. Which, while perhaps less of a worry in Spain than in some parts of Europe, probably isn't conducive to a really positive work experience. (You tend to worry a bit about your legal status, and you have virtually no comeback if you get ripped off by an employer.)

I agree with Glenski that you ARE CANADIAN. As Canadian as anybody else, regardless of anything. If other people don't understand that Canada is a multi-ethnic country, well, that isn't really your problem. In countries where ethnicity and nationality are more closely linked, and I think most of Asia falls into this category, people may be confused if you refer to your East Indian background. They won't be sure what it means, but it may make you sound less Canadian. I have worked with Chinese Americans who have had problems; ie people would assume that as "Chinese" their English would be less than perfect. (When in fact, they were monolingual anglophones, who happened to have Chinese heritage.) I think that mentioning your background may not be in your favour, as it will confuse people. But if you emphasize your native language, your qualifications, and your abilities, an employer who's worth working for shouldn't give a d@mn about your complexion.

My experience with Asians leaves me thinking that the ethnic difference between you and your boyfriend would largely go unnoticed. You sort of belong to the same category. Other.

Best of luck,
Justin

[Idioteque]

I�m not really sure what type of racism I was expecting � I�m just going on the negative stories I�ve heard about non-whites teaching in Asia (mostly Korea). I realize that people tend to focus on the bad stories, so I shouldn�t consume myself with this topic but it�s still a concern for me. Other than the obvious stares that most foreigners tend to receive, I suppose I was expecting some verbal �harassment� directed towards me and my boyfriend, and maybe to feel uncomfortable in my classroom because I�m not white. Maybe I�m just trying to prepare myself for every possibility so that nothing will surprise me!

So I guess Spain is out, since I�m not too interested in working illegally. Are there many places in Europe that would be ideal for a non-white, non EU citizen teacher?

As for working in a university, I do love children so being unable to work at a university isn�t a big deal, although I�m sure the pay is much better.

And as for my boyfriend, no he doesn�t have a bachelor�s degree, but he�s 25 so I believe he qualifies for a working holiday visa. He isn�t eligible to teach and he has no interest in it, unfortunately � but perhaps that�ll change once he realizes how limited his options are!
That�s something we�ll have to look into.

Anyway, thank you Glenski, Jizzo T. Clown, Paul and Justin for all of your input! If anybody has anything else to add that might help me, I�d love to hear from you.
Cheers.

[tedkarma]

[Cdaniels]

All the responders addressing race so far have been men (I think). I am curious if she might have a different experience as a woman. Could it be that she might even have a more positive experience as a female than a male? Or maybe sexism she faces might be more frustrating than racism?
PS I think the only possible places for North Americans to find legal work in Europe are Poland and the Czech Republic. I suppose Russia is another possibility.

[earthmonkey]

As for Japan, I agree with the above posters. You are perfectly qualified for a conversation school job and racism won't be a problem. You are not Japanese, so you are a foriegner. The same goes for your boyfriend.

The problem is your boyfriend.

If you get a job before coming over, for example, with one of the big chain schools (Nova, etc.), you will have no choice about where you are placed. If you are placed in a smaller city, it's highly unlikely that your boyfriend would be able to find what he is looking for. Also, you'd likely not be able to take advantage of company housing. Even if you find a job in Tokyo, he'd have a hard time, especially without language skills. His customers and co-workers would be Japanese. How will he communicate?

With his working holiday visa, he might be able to find some teaching work. Not having a degree will limit his opportunities, but there are jobs out there.

Good Luck!