Job Discussion Forums

wild horse · Joined: 15 Jan 2006 Posts: 3

I will be going to China soon and enrolling in a TESOL certificate course with TEFL International. After that, I'll be looking for work, however I know I have these things going against me:

1. I am not a native English speaker, but I speak American English at a native level with no accent, and my grammar is fine.

2. If they only want white people, I'm not white. I am an ethnic Chinese born in Taiwan. I can speak a fair amount of Mandarin Chinese if that's of any help in getting hired.

3. I don't have a university degree. I dropped out after two years in college. Would they even bother to look at the transcript of my two years at my university?

With these strikes against me, I understand that it won't be easy for me to find a job. So what are my chances? What parts of China, whether it's a poorer region that has trouble attracting teachers, or where they don't strictly enforce whatever new regulations they have, would be more likely to hire someone like me?

Thanks for any help and advice that you can provide.

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

warranty card · Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 27

Does this mean that if a university employs a teacher without a degree as a "foreign expert" with a Z visa that they are being employed illegally? Or is it more likely to mean that the "foreign expert" has faked his/her qualifications?

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

Old Dog · Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 564 Location: China

Ah, I see. Sounds as if lots of things in many places don't warrant too close a scrutiny.

Babala · Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 1303 Location: Henan

I would look at at provinces like Hunan, Shanxi, Hebei or maybe Qinghai to name a few. You might want to stay clear of Guangdong, Yunnan, Zhejiang, Jiangsu and Shanghai and Beijing as these places seem to have the most FT's.

HunanForeignGuy · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 989 Location: Shanghai, PRC

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

HunanForeignGuy · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 989 Location: Shanghai, PRC

TW makes some good points...

No, Hunan is still case-by-case on the four-year degree.

We had a teacher in this university who just left who did not have a university degree but rather high school and TESOL training. He did quite a good job although we did not share the same viewpoint on many things. One of h*ll of a really nice New Zealander. We were and still are heart-broken over his departure because of unrequited love...

So Hunan is truly case-by-case on so many things.

As to the Ta*wan issue, yes, please, if the poster is still a Taiwanese citizen, and only a Taiwanese citizen, there is not much that we could do here as this part of the republic is still rather conservative in that regard. In fact, soon after I arrived here I was thoroughly vetted on that one particular issue and only on that issue...strange enough...

I do agree with the rest of your assessment.

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Your Taiwanese passport certainly will be a liability.

That said, people of non-white ethnic origin certainly face some undeserved discrimination but this can be overcome too.

Finally, universities are universities in a Chinese context; don't expect them to be in any league with which you are familiar: even Peking University is run much like any ordinary school. Foreign nationals' jobs are to run English conversation classes - which are viewed as easy to get extra credits.

You may, of course, end up working in a language mill. Best for you might be a kindergarten - though they tend to discriminate against fellow Asians more drastically than at tertiary level - in terms of remunerations! The discrepancy can be shocking!

no_exit · Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 565 Location: Kunming

I don't doubt your English ability for one moment, it is obvious from your post that you've spent more than a few years in the US (or Canada? You didn't say). If you do hold a passport from any other country besides China or Taiwan, you should be able to find a job.

I say this because my school now employs at least three Asian or British born Chinese teachers, and one Korean (Korean born Korean) who speaks good English. You never know. Our Korean teacher is great with kids and the parents love her. I work for a private language chain by the way, and the parents (whose word is almost law at school) are usually sceptical at first, but once they chill out once they realize the teachers really are foreigners, and the school isn't simply trying to pull a fast one (this usually happens once they actually try to converse with the teachers in Chinese and quickly realize these folks are not native Chinese speakers).

Which brings up another point. At a private langage school especially, I would, at least at first, downplay your Chinese language skills. You say you speak a "fair amount of Mandarin." So do I, and while the parents appreciate that in me as a white teacher who has learned Chinese as a second language, if you speak too much Chinese, and have a Chinese face, the parents are far more likely to be suspicious of you. Your employer, being a shrewd businessperson, will see the parents as the ultimate authority, as they pay the tuition fees. The parents by and large don't speak English well enough to tell whether or not you speak it natively or not. So play dumb. Speak just enough to convince them you don't speak Chinese particularly well.

Good luck. I'm sure with a bit of luck you'll be able to find something. It won't be as easy as it would be if you weren't native Taiwanese, or had a degree, but it shouldn't be impossible either. I live in Yunnan by the way, and while there are a lot of foreigners here, there aren't a lot of qualified FTs. Don't let an abundance of backpackers turned teachers keep you from checking out the jobs here.

wild horse · Joined: 15 Jan 2006 Posts: 3

Thanks to everybody for all the advice. I don't think that my old university will give me any General Studies diploma for my time there.

MOD EDIT
Is "undergraduate diploma" the same thing as a high school diploma?

Just to clarify, I currently have a valid US passport and a valid Taiwanese passport, so I am a legal US citizen, and I assume the same for Taiwan as well. I have lived in the US for 21 years, starting when I was 6 years old. If that Taiwanese passport is such a hot-potato, I can keep my mouth shut about it.

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

warranty card · Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 27

I'm not sure what Millie means by "low-ranking". Maybe No. 188 in 2003 and somewhat lower, 256, in 2004 (http://rank2004.netbig.com/cn/rnk_1_0_0.htm) is not "low-ranking". After all, China is a big country. Whatever it is, Guangdong University of Technology (广东工业大学) was on a par in 2003 with

Guiyang Medical College
South-Central University for Nationalities
Central South Forestry College
Heilongjiang University of Chinese Medicine
Wenzhou Medical College
Dalian Railway Institute
Shanghai Foreign Trade College
East China Shipbuilding Institute
Yunnan Institute of Finance and Trade
Lanzhou Medical College
Shanghai Theater Academy

and with somewhat less illustrious company in 2004.

Its FAO indicates that it employs quite a few foreigners (18 according to their FAO) - from America, UK, Switzerland, Canada, Japan, ....

Still, it sounds interesting despite its humble origins:

Guangdong University of Technology (GDUT) was established in June 1995 under approval by the State Education Commission and through combination of Guangdong Institute of Technology, Guangdong Mechanical College and South China Construction College (East Campus).

It offers a range of valuable degrees:

Guangdong University of Technology is privileged to confer Doctor�s, Master�s, and Bachelor�s degrees on qualified students. At present the university has 5 doctoral degree programs, 31 master degree programs(including MBA program), 52 bachelor degree programs.