Job Discussion Forums

Mark · Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Posts: 500 Location: Tokyo, Japan

People often comment about how the Japanese are not interesting, etc., (and I've been guilty of that too), but I would like to toss out this question: Do you think that the average person in your home country is really cool and interesting?

We spend our lives building up a pool of people that we find cool and interesting and the new people we meet are usually friends of friends, or people that we meet through a common interest.

But then someone comes to Japan and ends up working in an eikaiwa and talking to a random sample of average people in a language that those people don't speak very well (and in a culture where people are not very comfortable talking to strangers) and come to the conclusion that Japanese are boring, etc.

Anyway, boring/interesting is a value judgement so it'll be different for everyone. I just think that in Japan you have to get to know a group of people really well before you start having good conversations.

And, yeah, Japanese talk about food a lot, but people back home talk about sports and pop culture. All of those things are just topics that allow people to talk to people they don't know well or don't have anything to talk to about. If you don't care about sports and pop culture and don't watch TV, a lot of conversations in NA can be pretty boring too.

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

Very valid points, Mark.

For me, what is difficult about living in Japan is making male Japanese friends. They are always working so it is almost impossible to get together and do something. I have practically given up with foreigners too as they are so transient and are moving away just when the friendship is starting to build. My wife has lots of J- girlfriends as they have the time, are around more AND (and this is a biggie) her Japanese is much much better than mine. When your Japanese is not at a high enough level, you really limit yourself as to who you can have good conversations with.

mrjohndub · Joined: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 198 Location: Saitama, Japan

Billy Chaka, if you care to say something about Americans, why don't you start a new thread?

Gordon, that's a good point about making male friends. I suppose you can find people to go drink with, but most males seem to be so busy as to not have time for much of anything else, activity-wise. How does your wife meet her girlfriends? Through work, activities, the neighborhood? Most foreign women that I know here seem to have a ton of Japanese female friends.

SEndrigo · Joined: 28 Apr 2004 Posts: 437

Hey let's not let this become a Japan vs. USA thread please....

I think there are boring people everywhere.

Japanese people I have found, are not boring, just workaholics. I think that's the biggest reason why it's difficult to make friends here, people just do not have time to hang out.

I've got several Japanese friends who are fantastic people, absolutely top-class guys, but it's difficult to hang out with them as they are always working.

Some people have said that Japanese people are superficial and only like drinking...well I experienced pretty much the same thing in Spain, where people were friendlier and more approachable in the beginning but a lot of the social life revolved around going out drinking/clubbing.

Here I believe, it's more of the workaholism and, to a much lesser extent, the "ware ware Nihonjin" thinking that get in the way of making good friendships!

But then again, I could be wrong!

Sweetsee · Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 2302 Location: ) is everything

Good points Gordon. I have found that if you don't drink you might as well forget about having any friends at all. But I have also learned that drinking friends are just that, you never see them except on the piss.

For me, my social life revolves around tennis. I met a Japanese player and he has turned out to be one of the nicest, most generous and considerate persons I have ever met. He came by the house the other night just to bring by some house-warming gifts.

There is one person who I consider to be my best friend. He is an Ethiopian refugee and we met during the last World Cup. He has helped me to move twice--that is a friend. I guess I am lucky because he is still trying to get a passport, so he can't leave me!

I am truly blessed to have found this friend. And right on to his countryman in yesterday's Tokyo Marathon!

Also, hi there JD. Whereabouts in Saitama are you?

Enjoy,
s

Cshannon · Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 114

Mark · Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Posts: 500 Location: Tokyo, Japan

I think everyone can agree that it's tough to make Japanese male friends. I have a few close friends but they can speak English and I met them when they lived in Canada.

Japanese guys are busy and stressed out and not that many really speak English.

If you're a guy and you want male friends, your workplace (and the ability to speak Japanese) is probably the best bet.

Personally, I think that Japanese generally don't emphasize the importance of friendship as much as we do in NA. Your job comes first and everything else is a distant second. And that's not necessarily by choice. A lot of guys would prefer to work less, but this is their country and they have to live here and function in society and that generally requires working a lot.

gaijinalways · Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2279

Yeah, they come in all flavors. People who talk at you and instead of to you? Those people exist in Japan too, but there are thankfully less Japanese that tend to do that. Though you must admit, I would be hard pressed to find an European or a North American who thinks sleeping or eating is a hobby (and this is people with more than an intermediate level of language Confused

)!

I have met some interesting people here. One was a political reporter for Friday magazine, had a lot of interesting stories. And then there was the Japanese Catholic priest I met, he was surprised as a non-Christian Twisted Evil

that I enjoyed discussing theology!

Billy Chaka · Joined: 20 Oct 2003 Posts: 77

MattElz · Joined: 07 Jan 2004 Posts: 92 Location: New York, NY, USA

This is off topic, sort of, but I just returned to the US (NYC) 6 months ago. Things are not exactly taking off, but things aren't terrible either. Here's a question for one of the veterans. (The weird thing is I think I'll be checking this message forum periodically for the rest of my days, even if I never teach English or move to another country again):

I had the idea of kind of getting an MATESOL as an insurance policy - if I don't want to do the corporate go-getter thing here, then it's a solid career, at least in NY, and I can basically get a job anywhere in the world with a demand for ESL teachers if I get sick of things here.

My question is this: when I was in Tokyo (and Kumamoto) teaching English, at several eikaiwa's, one senmon gakko, and privately, I wasn't particularly passionate about ESL or even teaching. But I do feel more comfortable in the general environment of schools, nonprofits, cultural institutions, etc. - and I did truly appreciate the bond that develops between you and certain students. Still, after 15 months I was definitely ready to do something other than teach eigo. Do you think it's worth investing the time in money in this area? (I majored in psych as an undergrad, so it would be a lot more expedient for me to get a teaching degree in ESL, than say history or English, both of which I might find more interesting on a personal level.)

Any thoughts?

Brooks · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1369 Location: Sagamihara

don`t be a teacher unless you want to be.
I have seen many people give up teaching (even after getting a MA in TESOL).
I have worked with jaded, cynical people, some who feel stuck, who are going to teach until they retire just because they don`t know what to do with their lives. I feel they are doing a disservice to their students.
Not everybody should teach.
I have worked with people who only think about money, or who wanted to escape America, Australia, etc.
Everyone should be lucky to find a job they want to do.

I can`t respect people who just go through the motions.

Sweetsee · Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 2302 Location: ) is everything

Hi Brooks,

You seemed to have described most of the English teacher types I see around. This is a gross generalization but perhaps this would account for their apparent determination to ignore fellow ex-pats.

Enjoy,
s

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

Sometimes the words we speak to others and our hearts differ. When faced with insurmountable difficulties we may more easily fire off a joke or cynical comment than expose the inner purpose that already lays raw and beaten.

moot point · Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 441

Anyway, to those having trouble meeting male J-friends...I think you need to pick up a hobby.

I surf and fish and have no problems meeting friends. When I was single my surfing buddies would often gather at someone's house two or three times a week to cook dinner together. It would be a mix of about a quarter gaijin and 3-quarters Japanese. Now that I'm married with kids I simply don't have the time to hang out with my buddies in the evenings but still have good friends that I meet at/in the ocean all the time. I've also met a good bunch of guys with my volleyball team and never find it hard to get a couple of friends to join me for a round of golf.

This kind of "friendship" isn't very deep but I don't think many working people, especially those with families, develop such deep relationships as we once may have had when sharing a house (or a bong) during all of those philisophical developmentally creative easy-going university days sitting by the local pond kicking a hackey-sack around. Nah. Life has become real, hasn't it? Deal with it.