Job Discussion Forums

alexrocks · Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 75 Location: Kyoto, Japan

Okay, this thread is very straightforward and hopefully won't descend into off-topic chaos. Let's just simply have a mature conversation about the pros and cons of unions. I'll start with some ideas, though I admit to not being an expert on labor issues:

Pro: By showing strength in numbers, unions can effect real change in the workplace, in many cases more than a non-management individual employee could do.

Con: Sometimes the goals of unions may conflict with a majority of employees, such as the fact that forcing Nova to participate in shakai hoken in regards to its foreign teachers led to lower salaries and less working hours for teachers, including overtime opportunities.

Pro: Joining a union may be a good way to share information and learn the ins and outs of your industry.

Con: Unions which get too strong often make unreasonable demands, greedily seeking more for themselves without regard to the common good, thus possibly ruining a company and disrupting the lives of all involved (including union members).

I'm looking forward to hearing y'all's replies.

I've also added a poll which may help develop a clearer perspective on how we all feel about unions. (I hope it works as this is my first time to make one.)

wangtesol · Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 280

This is retarded. Who would divulge info about a union who was not anti-union?

lalalateda · Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 72 Location: JAPAN

I've been reading some of these posts about unions and have a few questions:

I know that there are unions for those who work for the big 4 and interac, but are there unions for people working at small schools?

If there are unions for people working at small schools, how does one get involved?

Thanks and sorry if this is off topic.

wangtesol · Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 280

Great question! Thanks for asking. Yes small schools do have union branches.

You can check these migrant worker (that means you) union websites in Japan for more info.

http://www.generalunion.org (osaka area)

http://www.nambufwc.org (tokyo area)

http://fukuoka.generalunion.org (fukuoka area)

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

Alex: I can't answer your poll because the answers don't match the question. You are asking what is the ABILITY of a union to protect a teacher's interests, and the poll choices mainly refer to a teacher's WILLINGNESS to join a union. Those are two, seperate issues.

Without answering the poll, I will answer both questions.

1. The ability of ANY union to protect you is limited. A large part of this is because there aren't enough people interested in standing together united against corruption. However, you stand to gain many benefits ONLY given to you as a union member that you can never have as an individual -- such as the right to collective bargaining.

2. Even if a union isn't entirely EFFECTIVE in providing me protection, I'm WILLING to join, be a member and support the union. At the very least, it grants me additional benefits under the labour law. At best, it might save my job.

wangtesol · Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 280

Jim, you seem to want to speak with such authority here, but you have never been in a union in Japan, so you speak with no authority.

This is a major problem with these job forums.

Big John Stud · Joined: 07 Oct 2004 Posts: 513

I have to pretty much agree with JimDunlop2. A few years ago, I went to a union to see if they could help me get a company to pay me a month and a half of unpaid rages. The guy bluntly told me there were limited in what they could do. Since I have a lawyer I am better off with him. The lawyer is still making promises that we will go to court soon.

alexrocks · Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 75 Location: Kyoto, Japan

Thanks Jim for pointing out the discrepancy in my poll. I was gonna alter the question to make it more general, but since it's already begun I can't! So, I guess we could just say it's a poll of our general opinions on labor unions. Sorry about that, everyone!

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

yamanote senbei · Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 435

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

yamanote senbei · Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 435

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

True -- there is a lot of ambiguity, unfortunately. Just so there is no mistake, I was dealing with National Union of General Workers Tokyo South.

General Union's link site http://www.generalunion.org/links.htm says National Union of General Workers, Tokyo South and LINKS to http://nambufwc.org

My understanding of NAMBU was that it was Nambu Foreign Workers Caucus which is a special status organization within the National Union of General Workers Tokyo Nambu.

I think what happened is that the name of the organization changed, but is otherwise the same as before. A websearch for "national union of general workers tokyo south" ALL yields links to http://www.nambufwc.org/

I was able to find an OLD page belonging to "Tokyo South" here: http://nambu.generalunion.org/faq.htm but if you hit the "welcome" button it redirects you to http://www.nambufwc.org/

wangtesol · Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 280

The unions want quality people, not just anybody. If you cannot understand the organizational structur then that is one strike against you.

angrysoba · Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 446 Location: Kansai, Japan

Wang:

I thought the idea behind unions is that they are inclusive rather than exclusive.