Job Discussion Forums

angrysoba · Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 446 Location: Kansai, Japan

I completely agree with Jim's post above.

Scaring people away from the union with a superior attitude doesn't help the union at all.

wangtesol · Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 280

As usual on this forum we get uninformed comments from the peanut gallery.

This is basic: rats are not welcome. Why would an organization allow a person who would undermine the place? Are you calling this a supeior attitude?

But let me do say that yes unions are inclusive: they are open to all races, genders, socio-economic classes, etc... But who wants rats, pussies and jackasses?

Jim, I have read anti-union posts from you in the past. I really wonder what you are up to. Why were you rejected when you wanted to join a union? They are not simply cheap legal aid. More like mutual aid societies.

Jim, claiming to know what unions want yet not ever having been a member of a union in Japan is ridiculous. Do you want to be known assome sort of advice guru who knows even better than the organizations themselves? This is very common on web forums and listservs: these sort of yodas who take a little bit of public knowledge (like from a website) and then make sweeping assertions based on no insider knowledge.

That's great that you are promoting the March in March, but this is a time for unions to try and network, and you are personally using the opportunity to create your own network. Don't you think this is a conflct?

You have absolutely no credibility when it comes to talking on union matters. If people want to check his anti-union comments in the past, check out his comments on the Berlitz collective agreement. It should be in a thread named "post you labour disputes here."

alexrocks · Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 75 Location: Kyoto, Japan

You know, I've been mulling whether to join a union the past month or so since I'm looking for new work and all, and that's why I brought the topic up in the first place. I read a lot of threads here before making any posts of my own, so I've taken in a variety of opinions on the subject.

Btw, thanks to everyone who has put up a lot of useful information. You have my thanks.

I'm still undecided as to what to do, but Wang, are you sure you're not anti-union, because you've done a pretty good job of alienating people who do happen to be interested, including myself. I'd like to be involved in improving the conditions of wherever I may work next, but not if I have to deal with ideological tyrants. No thanks.

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

angrysoba · Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 446 Location: Kansai, Japan

In principle I am for unions but in Japan they are run by by people who believe they are better than you. They believe they are 'quality people'

Wangtesol thinks he is a quality person. He thinks other people are not. Do you trust him to fight for you?

I do not.

He is an arrogant mofo.

angrysoba · Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 446 Location: Kansai, Japan

Wang:
If you are such a great advocate for your people then why don't you show it.

You are despicable. All ESL people should disown people like you.

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

Calm down. Calm down.

Jim is obviously not anti Union. He advises people to join a union to strengthen their position, especially in the event of problems with their company, which happen more often than some newly arrived teachers realise.

The Union he approached was honest enough to tell him that the help that they would be able offer him, in the event of problems, would be limited due to their lack of members in his locality.

Re: Berlitz' policy on 'disciplinary action due to percieved smelling of alcohol'. The problem was that there was no objective way of monitoring this. Berlitz could apply the rule arbitrarily to anyone that any manager decided was 'smelling of alcohol'. The manager could be mistaken, or have a grudge, or the employee may just have used a mouthwash. The policy was arbitrary and unmonitired. That was why it was right to oppose it.

Re: Unions. For your own sake join. The simple knowledge that you have a Union prepared to go intyo bat for you in the event of unfair and/or illegal treatment by your employee strengthens your hand in such cases. Most English in Japan have neither the local knowledge, nor the language skills to battle an unfair employer alone. Lawyers and the Labour boards can help. But a Union can help you in both these case as well.

Join.

wangtesol · Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 280

Usually at large union rallies a large inflatable rat is brought along to remind everyone that solidarity is the key in union struggles. Ratting out your fellow workers is a common occurence in EFL in Japan for securing one's job. As I posted earlier, a few years ago, teachers at Shane tried to organize a union but a fellow teacher ratted them out, and guess what? He was promoted to management and the teachers involved were fired.

Jim describes himself:

[email protected] · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 67

So Wangtesol believes you can't comment on a union if you've never been in one.

Does this mean you can't have an opinion on the Mormon Church because you are a Mormon?

Do you ever think before you write something, Wanger?

[email protected] · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 67

Obviously that should have read, "You can have an opinion on the Mormon church if you AREN'T a Mormon."

Of course you can.

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

wangtesol: You obviously seem to know me inside and out -- you are confident that I don't have any experience being in a Japanese union -- and yet you don't even know what company I work for. If you've been around Dave's for a while and read any of my posts, you would know by now that I work directly for a board of education (no chance of me telling you where so don't bother asking). It would stand to reason that any union that I would be a member of is NOT the same union as those working for the Big 4 or an eikaiwa or juku.

As an aside, the teachers' unions around here are usually members of the Rengo group but there are some who are independent as well. Interestingly enough, even one of the older unions have had some troubles getting chartered into a union federation -- once again citing geography as being a reason why they were not accepted.

What I'd like to know is whoever told you that I didn't have experience being in a union? Where did you get this information? In the end, it doesn't really matter -- it's moot. I'm not about to walk up to you during the march and present you with a union membership card to prove a point anyway. But if I DO decide to say "hi" to you at the march, I'll just look for the guy holding the inflatable rat.... ;-P

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

[email protected] · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 67

So most contracts are illegal and most employers are "bleep."

Well, that is bleep. Funny how all these contracts are illegal but no one does anything about it. All these school boards are doing all these illegal things. What a bunch of crap that is.

Most of all- your comment that most employers are bleep is the real bleep. You enter the work place with a chip on your shoulder treating the boss as an enemy and then you wonder why things go wrong.

That attitude is the bleeping probelm.

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

As I said, Most eikaiwa cotracts are illegal and most eikaiwa employers are 5hites.

The illegality of said contracts are easily evidenced by how often, when a legality of contract dispute goes to court, the judge judges the clause to be illegal.

A few examples will suffice. Nova are the biggest eikaiwa employer in Japan. Their 'no contact between any foreign Nova teacher and any Nova student outside of school' clause has been judged illegal on numerous occasions. Aeon have a 'no teacher may own, drive or hire a motor vehicle whilst in Japan' clause. This is also an illegal restriction on the personal freedom of employees outside of the workplace. Similar illegal clauses can be found in the contracts of the other big eikaiwa chains. Just as 'If you cease working for us you must quit your apartment within so many days or weeks' clauses are legally unenforceable under Japanese law unless the aprtment is provided on a free, or almost free basis. The contracts of most EFL teachers contain one or more (often many many more!) of such legally unenforceable clauses. Thus they are illegal and the clauses unenforceable under Japanese law. QED.

The reason that such contracts continue to be offered is that the govt has no power to prevent employers and employees from signing contracts containing illegal clauses. Unions, however, can be a great help in preventing employers from getting away with enforcing such illegal clauses as employers know that Unions have the resources to ensure legal redress for employees illegally treated by their employer.

This is just one of many good reasons for joining a union. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to point this out.

Next!