Job Discussion Forums

[myesl]

Must I agree with everyone who posts? If you would care to refute what I say, be my guest.

Even if every teacher before you was the model of propriety, you would be watched at most schools. When I say watched I don't mean looked at (you are a handsome devil!). I mean spied upon.

[cubit]

You're right, I am a handsome devil... and you are not obligated to agree with me, though in a perfect world you would be.

In my current job I don't feel watched at all. But I work for a language mill and live off campus. But my employers have had sufficient problems with foreign teachers in the past that they have broached the subject of grouping teachers together in same apartment building so that the foreign manager can keep better tabs on them.

I talked them out of it because I think that trying to "keep tabs" on our teachers will only infuriate the good teachers who don't cause any problems and encourage the problem teachers to become more devious, not create any solutions. And because I am the foreign manager and I enjoy living away from work.

But my employers were thinking of grouping the teachers only because of problem teachers, their initial approach has always to back off when it came to a teachers personal time and apartment.

Then again, I don't live at a high school or university (or teach very many students of that age) so there is no worry that I might be inappropriatly fraternizing with my students. At schools where this is a possibility, perhaps the school is choosing to err on the side of student and teacher safety, even if absurdly so.

I don't think I would work there, though, assuming I knew of the restrictions before signing the contract. Doesn't sound worth breaking your contract over.

[Malsol]

Deleted

[NorbertRadd]

My school gave me these forms to fill out and I never used them and have had women visit me but no stay overs and no one said anything.
I think the FAO here just goes through the motions.
I've talked with most of the security guards and even took a walk on campus with a woman that I met at an internet cafe who I think is/was a pro but again, no one's said anything.
I'd suggest using hotels

[myesl]

[Wocca]

I currently live just off-campus in one of the university's residential quarters. There are are nine foreign teachers in the building. We lead every day lives.

A couple of female workers use the downstairs' apartment as an office from about 8.30am to 5pm Monday - Friday. They seem to be either doing some minor cleaning OR playing computer games.They are NOT onsite during the evenings or weekends.

There's an electronic door to the building. All the FT's know the code to get in. We come and go whenever we like.

There are appears to be a visitor's register in the foyer that none of the FT's use. I suspect that the workers might ask other workers, such as the water bottle deliverers or tradespeople, to sign the book. This would be for the overall security of the building. Nothing else.

It's almost time to start discussing contracts for next academic year. If anyone is really unhappy about living conditions, then these should be considered when deciding where you want to be next year.

[tofuman]

I'm shocked to hear that there is a concern among administrators that FTs might be sleeping with the Chinese students. I thought that about 95% of Chinese girls were virgins when they marry or that the boy they do have sex with before marriage is the one they do marry.

Although I am aware of a subclass of women who do engage in sexual promiscuity, I believe that this is a small number among a larger group of lovely, virginal women who have not kissed any man beside the one to whom they surrender their virginity in the wedding bed.

It may be that these women, after being plied with alcohol provided by the FT in his room, do violate the laws regarding the sanctity of the marital bed; however, having first been lured there by a promise of free English lessons, it is understandable how these li'l azn angels might be caught offguard when the FT makes a lunge for their reproductive organs.

In more enlightened times men of this ilk might simply have been killed. In some cultures, violating the honor of a virgin may still result in death at the hands of a male family member. Unfortunately, these inexperienced young women have no male family members aside from their father to avenge the loss of their virginity.

In light of the foregoing, it is understandable that school administrators go to great lengths to maintain a moral climate on their campuses.

[Yu]

Dont take all the spying personally. I think they spy on Chinese students as well. They also spy on Chinese teachers. The difference between us and them is that they are used to having people spy on them and we are not.

So what if you have to sign in guests. When my friend came to visit, she was supposed to register with the police station that she was staying with me. I have not registered with the police station. I know I should do it. The police came to my house and informed me that I should do it. How did the police know where I live? Which is not on campus? Beats me, but I think it is fair to say some spying is done. Or it could be my visiting friend put on her enrty permit the address (mine) where she would be staying in Shanghai but failed to register. Anyway, it is not such a big deal.

My collegues (Chinese teachers) can somehow find me at any time. I think if I needed to locate one of them at any given time I could also tap into the spy network and hunt them down. I generally dont have trouble to learn the where abouts of the person I need to find, I can check in the office and the staff there will eagerly tell me. People here just have more of a sense of where others are at any given time. Or maybe this is the same, but they are willing to share it with you.

[NorbertRadd]

This is obvious but if you really want to be treated as the Chinese, you have to take a pay cut.

[myesl]

NorbertRadd, There are literally millions of Chinese who make more than I do. This notion that asking to have the same rights as the locals, little as they have relatively speaking, somehow equates to some bizarre Marxist, or even, French, notion of "equality" is just silly, if I may be so blunt.

I have a service to offer and they can't find a lot of it and they for some reason think they need this service (though I have told them they don't), so they give me more money than my friend who waits tables at Pizza Hut. But she has a friend (Chinese) who makes almost four (4) times what I do (and to many people's surprise, she's a she, and yes her business is strictly legal).

The Chinese settle for nothing less than their full rights when they come to my country. In certain respects they have more rights than I do in the nether world of political correctness.

Last year a Chinese graduate student was the first graduate student in the US (not first Chinese, first) to win in court when suing his American uni for research he did. American and foreign grad students have long been denied the fruits of their labor at US unis. It's wrong, but it was true for all.


Yu, the Chinese teachers are NOT spied on to the extent and in the way we are. To say so is simply false. They have no sign in requirements or sign in books at their building. This has been true at both unis I've worked at.


Yes, Wocca, and others, thank you for the high and mighty observation. I am going to check this for my next school. That is why I am posting this. I wanted to get an idea of how wide spread this is and how stict it is. But I will be specifically asking the FTs at my next school before I sign any contract. If I stay in this lovely country.


Tofuman, I assume that was sarcasm, though somehow your technique was not evident to me. If it was not, you are scary.



Aside from being amazed at how many people don't bother to read my original post before replying (and how mad they become when I suggest they should be replying to a post or starting their own thread), I am amazed at how many FTs out there seem to believe falsehoods and rumors about laws and regulations in China. Perhaps what is most amazing is how many FTs are willing to bend over for the Chinese. As said above, the Chinese needn't bend over when they come to my country.

[KarenB]

My first 2 years in China (Sichuan), we were put up in this dreadful guesthouse, surrounded by a wall, with a gate that was locked at night (it was supposed to be locked at 11 p.m., but the guard would want to go to bed early and lock it at 9 p.m. some nights, which made me especially angry when I returned from night class).

Anyway, any student visitors to our apartment had to sign in and out at this sheet on the first floor. Sometimes, the guard made them call up to us (on the phone in the foyer) to see if it was ok for them to come up. Sometimes, the guard tried to prevent them from coming up. Once I was hosting a Christmas party for an entire class (we had this big multiuse room for all the FTs to use), and the guard wouldn't let the class come up. I had to call the FAO and tell her to call the guard and tell him it was alright. As I recall, FTs visiting from other schools didn't usually have to sign up.

One time, the maids ripped off my kids Christmas candy (sent in a care package from the states), and the sign-up sheet came in handy, as I could prove that no students had been in the building, so it had to be the maids (that and the candy wrappers were in the trash can in the maid's room -- they tried to claim they bought them locally, but we ALL know you can't get Reese's cups locally).

Anyway, I'm not sure why this school had all these strict rules. They also didn't let us get our mail directly from the post office -- it went to the FAO office and we picked it up there. It did feel like being in some sort of house arrest.

Our present school is totally open. We have a house that opens right on to the sidewalk of the campus, and anyone drops in whenever they please. We deal with the post office employees directly.

[NorbertRadd]

I read your post.
The first tactic is to understand. Possibly then you can be understood.
You believe that a quid pro quo should go on. They don't. Tehy can find another teacher easily.
FYI, urban wages PER CAPITA were just over 6000 RMB/ year in 2002. Hundreds of millions of Chinese make less than you.

[JDYoung]

I hope I understand that the OP was just looking for information, not opinions, on the practices at their university so here goes:

The foreign teachers live in a building on campus designed specifically as the foreign teachers residence and campus hotel. It's quite new and the hotel part isn't opened yet. The campus has the usual gates and guards. The building has 24-hour security types on duty just inside the door. There is a mini-apartment for the guards where they have a TV and a bed.

To the best of my knowledge the foreign teachers have no problem getting on or off campus at any time of the day or night. The door to the building is locked sometime around 10pm. We don't have keys but there is a door buzzer to alert security who comes and lets us in. One security type who complained obnoxiously about having to get up and let us in was fired. There is no signing in or out.

Guests accompanied in by a foreign teacher don't seem to be questioned. The same is true with guests arriving on their own who are known to security.

We have asked for more security concerning people who arrive without a foreign teacher or someone on staff at the university and who are not routine guests. This is because some of us have been pestered by students wanting more unarranged time with their teachers. We have agreed that the visitor will use the phone at the security desk to call the teacher they want to visit. If the teacher agrees to the visit the teacher will go down to the desk and accompany the visitor to wherever they want to go. There is no signing in/out to my knowledge. I've never seen any kind of logbook at the security desk If such a person is stopped at the university gate I assume a similar procedure would be followed.

There are gadgets like security cameras mounted on the ceilings on each floor. Whether or not they are such, they really work, or anyone is looking at them I don't know. I haven't heard of anyone being talked to, disciplined, or whatever concerning what the cameras may have seen.

I am not aware of any foreign teacher or guest who has been harassed in any way.

Personally, I don't have any quarrel with any of these measures.

[adamsmith]

It is amazing to see this post and some of the replies. In my first school I taught at in China FTs were not allowed guests - be they students, chinese teachers or people from outside. I was beginning to think this was the norm. Was I ever suprised to see that many of you are allowed to have students even come to your place.
At this school we were treated like we were in a monastery with the gate being locked at 10 PM every night even though in our Rules the gate was supposed to remain open until 1PM on weekends. Nothing we ever did was succesful in getting this changed.


To my pleasant suprise though when I moed to my second school the foreign teachers were treated with the respect deserved as being adults. We (along with students and other teachers) are able to come and go at any time of the night onto campus as the gate has security guards awake at nght and the gate is left open.

Unfortunatly at our guest house where we stay, we have keys but we are watched and cannot bring in overnight guests (somewhat understandable as there is no such thing as soundproofing) and during the daytime our guests are interogated by the door nazi when they come to visit.

Students are ultimately forbiden to pass the entryway, so if they are there for tutorial we must give it to them in the lobby. This is perfectly fair and understandable as in any western uni that I know of the professors have a very strict code of conduct involving teacher student relationships and this saves on any questions of impropriety.

[grwit]

Adamsmith I am the complete opposite of your first experience.

We have a gate and guards as usual but the gate is always open and the guards are exceptionally lazy. None of my visitors have to sign in.

I enjoy my night life and often go to the local bar and come home at any time during the night.

My chinese girlfriend just came to visit me during the may holiday and she and I came and went as we pleased. we would come home together at all hours of the morning and no one has said anything to me about this not being appropriate.

Sure we maybe watched but no one has taken any sort of action to prevent me from having visitors whether they are students or friends from outside. I am treated as a responsible adult able to make my own decisions and so are my guests.

As for premarital sex and living together before marrage as others have mentioned... there is no law in china to stop this it is mearly socially unacceptable.

I did hear 1 story where a FT and his girlfriend (soon to be married) were living together on campus and the school cancelled his contract and booted him out.